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Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

Old Apr 8th 2017, 1:05 pm
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Default Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

Now here's a thing.

We had a panic telephone call from a friend in the UK saying that he had today received two fines from the police in Britanny for motoring offences recorded .his UK driving licence.

He has never been to Britanny, hasn't driven in France for many years BUT had his wallet stolen on the RER in Paris about 2 months ago - which he reported.

The UK police say there is nothing they can do to help but suggested he sent a letter to the French police explaining, with document if possible to cover himself.

We have told him to stop worrying and just provide what proof he can and have offered to help him write the letter in French.

Anyone got any bright ideas on anything else he od we might do to help or should we just encourage him to stop worrying?
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Old Apr 8th 2017, 2:27 pm
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

Was he out of France at the time these incidents took place?

Can he show bank transactions for example that place him in the UK at this time?

I would write a letter A/R of course, with proof of reporting the wallet stolen, proof that he was in the UK at the time of he can. But really, the fact that he reported it stolen should be sufficient.
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Old Apr 8th 2017, 2:30 pm
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

Originally Posted by grannybunz View Post
Now here's a thing.

We had a panic telephone call from a friend in the UK saying that he had today received two fines from the police in Britanny for motoring offences recorded .his UK driving licence.

He has never been to Britanny, hasn't driven in France for many years BUT had his wallet stolen on the RER in Paris about 2 months ago - which he reported.

The UK police say there is nothing they can do to help but suggested he sent a letter to the French police explaining, with document if possible to cover himself.

We have told him to stop worrying and just provide what proof he can and have offered to help him write the letter in French.

Anyone got any bright ideas on anything else he od we might do to help or should we just encourage him to stop worrying?
Things like this are always happening here in France, people stealing details and numberplate.
On the news was a farmer with many speeding fines for his tractor which has never left his farm.
No help to you I know but just keep telling them what has happened and one day they may believe you.
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Old Apr 8th 2017, 2:40 pm
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

Originally Posted by petitefrancaise View Post
Was he out of France at the time these incidents took place?

Can he show bank transactions for example that place him in the UK at this time?

I would write a letter A/R of course, with proof of reporting the wallet stolen, proof that he was in the UK at the time of he can. But really, the fact that he reported it stolen should be sufficient.
+1
He could send to the Department which sent the letter demanding payment of fines, a photocopy of the receipt that the Paris Commissariat gave him when he reported the theft. If he can prove that he wasn't in Brittany at the time of the motoring offence, all the better.
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Old Apr 8th 2017, 6:23 pm
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

Thanks. He has done all of the above, at least he will have done when we translate the letters.

Apparently you can't send a proof of posting.receiving letter from the UK. I don't think this is correct
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Old Apr 8th 2017, 7:05 pm
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

Originally Posted by grannybunz View Post
Thanks. He has done all of the above, at least he will have done when we translate the letters.

Apparently you can't send a proof of posting.receiving letter from the UK. I don't think this is correct
well, my local postman would ignore it or not depending on his mood.

Send it as needing a signature on receipt and make sure you keep the bit that proves it was sent.

Or use dhl etc
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Old Apr 8th 2017, 7:37 pm
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

Something's fishy here because if they have the details of his driving licence then that can only really mean that whomever committed the offences must have been actually stopped and on the reasonable assumption that he was French and was driving a French registered car it's somewhat puzzling as to why the presentation of a UK licence did not blow the deception at the roadside.

I have to assume it was an old paper licence as obviously a photocard would have given the game away instantly.

Since in France you are required to carry a vehicle's documents at all times it seems clear there must have been some sloppy work by the gendarmes or whomever caught the driver so maybe that should be the substance of any reply not trying to prove that you were never there which frankly is going to be a pretty difficult thing to do.

Regardless of anything else Directive 2015/413 which enables enforcement and collection of cross border fines does not come into force in UK until May 7th so currently there is nothing the French can do except send you a fine in the hope that it will scare you into paying.

In the light of Brexit you can't help but wonder just how assiduous the UK might be in following the Directive even after it does come into force?
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Old Apr 8th 2017, 7:42 pm
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

The other question your friend should be asking is whether this is a genuine fine or a con from those who stole his wallet!!
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Old Apr 8th 2017, 8:05 pm
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

For such a relatively piffling amount, you think ?
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Old Apr 8th 2017, 8:45 pm
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

Possibly not but then maybe that's the beauty of the scam?
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Old Apr 9th 2017, 6:08 am
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

Originally Posted by Im_and_Er View Post
Something's fishy here because if they have the details of his driving licence then that can only really mean that whomever committed the offences must have been actually stopped and on the reasonable assumption that he was French and was driving a French registered car it's somewhat puzzling as to why the presentation of a UK licence did not blow the deception at the roadside.

I have to assume it was an old paper licence as obviously a photocard would have given the game away instantly.

Since in France you are required to carry a vehicle's documents at all times it seems clear there must have been some sloppy work by the gendarmes or whomever caught the driver so maybe that should be the substance of any reply not trying to prove that you were never there which frankly is going to be a pretty difficult thing to do.

Regardless of anything else Directive 2015/413 which enables enforcement and collection of cross border fines does not come into force in UK until May 7th so currently there is nothing the French can do except send you a fine in the hope that it will scare you into paying.

In the light of Brexit you can't help but wonder just how assiduous the UK might be in following the Directive even after it does come into force?
I think it's more likely that his licence details were put on a requete d'exoneration when someone in France received an amende for speeding. If so, the friend simply has to deny he was the driver of the car (proof he was not even in France would be useful, but not essential) and the amende should then revert to the vehicle's owner, probably with a prosecution for falsely denouncing a 3rd party.
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Old Apr 9th 2017, 7:45 am
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

IVV's suggestion sounds the most likely to me. Presumably the person who received the original fine never expected the police to follow up a foreign address. I've never been pulled over but from what I hear, if you are stopped then you're not just verbalised and allowed to drive on, you're expected to pay the fine on the spot. Hard to imagine them letting a visitor driving on a foreign licence drive on their way without paying, and especially not twice.
Do the fines give details of the car being driven and the exact locations of the offences? If yes then I think IVV has the answer, if not I suspect scam.
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Old Apr 10th 2017, 5:12 pm
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

There is virtually no way of enforcing traffic offences committed in France in the UK.
Even if it is possible in the future it will involve proving the case in a UK court if it is defended making it not cost effective for traffic fines.
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Old Apr 10th 2017, 6:24 pm
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Default Re: Fined in the UK for offences committed in France

I have just spoken to him again. The utterly ridicuous thing is that, 5 days after he had reported the loss of his wallet and licence to the police in Paris and had returned to the UK, the offender was clocked doing a ridiculous speed on a powerful motor bike around the peripherique at 3.15 am. Our friend is 78!!!!!.

The other fine was from Rennes.
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