Finding work in France
 

Hello all,

We're considering moving to France in 3-5 years, once we've comfortable with the language, and when we'll hopefully be in a position to buy a property outright.

My partner speaks good French and her current employer would allow her to work from home in France (they also have French base so I guess she would be employed by the French wing of the business). She doesn't like the work much, so this would just be transitional until she found other employment in France.

I'm slightly different in that I'm an Accountant and I'm not sure how well my skills will translate. I'm not currently a fluent French speaker.

So, a couple of questions....

1. Are there any Accountants on the forum who can give advice on qualifications / finding work? I will be fully CIMA qualified in the next 2-3 years, but not sure what status this would give me in France.

2. We expect to live in central / west France, possibly Dordogne area. Are there many job opportunities in this areas for those with limited French?

Thanks for any help

Re: Finding work in France
 

"Expert comptable" is a profession réglementée in France - not sure what the translation is, do we call it a controlled profession? so you need certain qualifications and you also need to be a member of the Order in order to set up your own practice. If you don't have this status I believe you can be employed by an established practice at a more junior level. Rereading your post I see you're a management accountant, does that mean you would be looking for a job in a company rather than setting up on your own? I'm not certain what recognition CIMA has in France at present but last time I looked at Brexit there was no agreement to continue recognising qualifications and I'm not sure any further discussion was planned on this.

Obviously French tax laws, rules and methods and customs are very different (company structures, reporting, audits etc) so there may be a fair amount of retraining to do. I suggest you look into the training involved in qualifying for this role in France to see what you would need to learn.

Still on the Brexit theme, by the time you move in 3 to 5 years the UK will presumably be out of the EU, so unless both have another EU passport, or one of you does and you get married (well you'd want to get married in any case if you buy a property jointly in France), exercising freedom of movement to come to France and look for work might no longer be an option. Remains to be seen exactly what the future arrangements for immigration will be, but at present it's a bit hard to imagine that when all this sad pantomime is over Britain will still be allowing unrestricted immigration for EU job-hunters. Unless you know something we don't?

Re: Finding work in France
 

PS - a swift google while waiting for an email to arrive so that I can get started on the day's job, suggests that CIMA is recognised and very highly respected in France, so as long as B doesn't put a spanner in your plans all you need to do is build up your experience and work on your French and you'll be able to compete for the available jobs along with the rest :thumbup: and hopefully by that time Macron might have helped the job situation here as well.

indeed.fr is as good a place as any to see what jobs are available.

Re: Finding work in France
 

+1
There was a thread some time ago (do a forum search for "UK Chartered Accountant") which will give info. Accounting is certainly different here and retraining in French must surely be necessary. I'm also thinking "high unemployment" among professionals, but Macron may have reduced this by the time you arrive....
Can't emphasize too much how "partners" are poorly considered in France. Take a look at the "Partner Status" thread in the Read-Me: Moving to France FAQs above if you buy property jointly as a couple not legally bound...
P.S. Didn't see ET's latest post. I still think that, however good your French is by then, you would need a retraining period in order to compete with (bilingual) French candidates chasing any jobs going....
Good luck with your plans!:)

Re: Finding work in France
 

Hi Welcome to the forum.
The french do like their rule books - their list of rules and regulations.
The code civil is like a medium sized Bible and there was a pile of them available in the local book shop last month. Obviously it is a must read for french students.
Recently, the code du travail was extended and instead of making an already large tome even bigger - they made the print size smaller.
You would have to prepare yourself for a completely different way of working and loads of rules and a lot of official bureaucracy.
In addition, it is very easy to mis-understand or be mis-understood at times in a foreign language.
Good luck with your plans

Re: Finding work in France
 

Have to admit I hit a bit of a brick wall seeing if I could find out more about management accountant opportunities in France, maybe I was using the wrong terms but I tried comptable en management accrédité and comptable en gestion, what else might it be called? Just about all that came up seemed to relate to international corporations with offices in France rather than your average French business, and the study courses talked a lot about the international opportunities that this kind of qualification opens up. I suppose France does have them, or is it more of an anglo-saxon concept? Something for the OP to look into, maybe. Do we have any accountants on here?

Re: Finding work in France
 

Just picked up on your partner's plans.
You can't just assume that the French base would take her on as a salariée. If she works from home, she must set up a French business structure. If her UK company officially keeps her on as an employee resident in France, it must do all the necessary paperwork for healthcare coverage, etc...
ET will explain all this, much better than me....;)
... And I've also just picked up on the Dordogne question. Do a search for "Experts-Comptable" in the Pages Jaunes, entering Dordogne, to get an idea of how much competition you'd have if you set up a business there. Your best bet would be to start as an ordinary accountant in a company and work up.

Re: Finding work in France
 

Actually ET would disagree I'm afraid - setting up as self employed if she continues working for the same employer doing the same work that she previously did as a salariée, would be a classic example of salariat déguisé and could get her employer into serious trouble. She would need to continue to be employed and presumably that would indeed mean transferring to a French employment contract issued by the French office.

After Brexit, even in the worst case scenario, it will likely be easier for a company to transfer existing employees between its UK and EU offices, than for a French company to recruit a Brit as a new employee. It may no longer be possible for Brits to rock up in France and set up a small business - at present non EU immigrants can't do that (unless they get a visa that allows them to, which involves jumping through a lot of very small hoops), so unless there are special arrangements for Brits, then if they're not EU citizens I guess they won't be able to either.

Re: Finding work in France
 

Thanks for all the info. I've come across a few accountant threads, so just browsing through them.

Where did you read that CIMA was recognised in France? I've had a quick google but can't find anything relevant.

Going by the responses here and elsewhere it seems the best option is just to get immersed in the language and take any job that I'd be lucky enough to get, then work up from there.

Re: Finding work in France
 

Ha, can't remember now but I found a few French forums where people were discussing what was the best qualification to get, and this CIMA - France though admittedly it's biased and possibly a bit slippery - it talks about it being recognised all over the world but doesn't specifically mention France, plus it seems to be talking about the global CGMA rather than CIMA. Is why in my post I said 'suggests' rather than 'confirms'... however I'm sure that as an insider you're better placed to cut through the cr4p and see what they are really promising.

Re: Finding work in France
 

Yeah, CIMA pretends to be global, but it really isn't. CGMA is the CIMA qualification. There's talk that they're soon to become part of the AICPA, and apparently UK + USA = Global

Re: Finding work in France
 

Realistically though, I guess you're going to be looking at working in a global organisation with an anglo-saxon culture, so as long as they're impressed... Saying that, I don't know what global organisations there are in Dordogne.

Re: Finding work in France
 

We're not limited to Dordogne, we're potentially considering anywhere with reasonable property costs and proximity to an airport. Not sure if there's anywhere in particular you'd recommend for employment opportunities?

Re: Finding work in France
 

Well a lot of people recommend Sophia Antipolis if you're moving primarily in order to work. Not sure it's a place you'd choose otherwise.

I take it you do have a Brexit proof plan, such as Irish passports or something, in case Brits are no longer permitted come to France and look for work after 2018.

Re: Finding work in France
 

Sorry I wasn't clear. I simply wanted to point out that the OH's partner will face the same problems as the OH - high unemployment in all fields.
I meant the UK company posting the employee to France, with an S1 form for healthcare coverage.:unsure:
The "setting up a business structure" meant being self-employed with several clients.
But in fact we don't know what the OH's partner's profession is....

Re: Finding work in France
 

Nope!

Re: Finding work in France
 

She's a highly-skilled veterinary doctor and is employed part of the week, self-employed the other part. I believe in the medium-term she would be looking to work in a French surgery, either on an employed or self-employed basis.

Re: Finding work in France
 

You must be absolutely fluent to work credibly here.

Re: Finding work in France
 

:blink: Rather a sweeping statement.
If you mean in a veterinary or other medical practice, I agree.
However, I'm frequently in contact with newly arrived british personnel in the aircraft industry at Toulouse (skilled and semi-skilled), very credible workers, who don't speak a word of French, and unless they are in a managerial position are not required to.

Re: Finding work in France
 

https://www.veterinaire.fr/exercer-l...uropeenne.html
confirms that a qualified EU vet can register if he/she satisfies the language requirement. I didn't read the Article of the Code concerning this, but imagine that the level is very high....

https://www.veterinaire.fr/exercer-l...r-liberal.html
on the same site also gives info on vétérinaires libéraux (self-employed) if your partner, once registered, doesn't wish for salaried employment.

P.S. I'm a bit confused, as in your 1st post, you said that your partner's employer is willing to allow her to work from home in France. Also that she doesn't like the work much. That doesn't sound compatible with working as a Vet....

Re: Finding work in France
 

Wow, that is courageous. However if it's with a company in the aircraft industry, I imagine that a lot of things are layed out and arranged for them, to help them to adapt and integrate. If one comes over to settle here without a company backing one up, it's a entirely different story.

Re: Finding work in France
 

Hi Tweedpipe, you would also know that English is the working language of Airbus, as it is for most multi-national companies based in France. Otherwise, chaos would ensue.... oh wait!

I also worked in France and when I started my french was a lot less than perfect! I was also looking after french speaking patients and in those circumstances you pick it all up very quickly. An expert knowledge of your subject, fantastic work experience, stellar references and being in the right place at the right time are probably almost as important as half decent grounding in french.

Re: Finding work in France
 

One of my best friends in France is a veterinarian. It is shockingly badly paid if you are normal run of the mill veterinary dr.

Re: Finding work in France
 

Hi Pf,
I didn't know that vets were poorly paid in France, but what I do know is that those I have met and dealt with, do a truly outstanding job. In fact I've just opened a new thread on the subject.

Re: Finding work in France
 

I thought vets managed their own business, so the salary they take is of their own choosing, depending on the turnover. Surely only vets within a larger structure would be on a salary determined by their superiors.

Re: Finding work in France
 

Don't worry about Brexit closing the doors of France to the Brits, we're pretty much necessary to the French economy, I've had a girlfriend working in tourism there (near St Jean de Monts) and she told me that she and her university friends who found jobs in tourism as well had tons of British tourists and expats to deal with, all over the country (but especially in Provence and in Brittany). Even with Brexit, the Frenchies will try to find a way to keep the stream flowing, especially since expats are buying real estate in some of France's most impoverished regions: it's cheap and in the countryside!

Re: Finding work in France
 

I'm afraid I don't agree with this.
Granted there are an estimated 150k - 200k Brits resident in France depending of which of the stats one wishes to believe. Even with perhaps one third of the Eymet population being Brits, I cannot accept that those numbers are 'necessary' for the French economy. Nice to have agreed, but given that many are 'inactives', I would argue that even myself having paid into the French coffers for many years along with the thousands of other Brits, imho the French economy doesn't significantly depend on it.

Re: Finding work in France
 

That's as may be, but the OP would have to compete with equally qualified, bilingual French candidates chasing after any jobs going - French employers tend to look after their own and would logically choose a French candidate. Unemployment in France is high and most professions are affected.
Just as a matter of interest (to any one considering this career), were your gf and friends in a French University and did they all get CDIs, or simply seasonal CDDs? In what way did they deal with expats? (who, strictly speaking, aren't tourists).

Re: Finding work in France
 

Hasn't that trend been gradually reversing? I remember reading that less Brits have been buying properties and settling here than in the 90s and early 2000s.
With all the uncertainties around Brexit in relation to the health and other services/administrations, I wouldn't say that the future looks all that cut and dry for newly arriving expats looking to settle. Still true though about good deals to be found in terms of properties out in the sticks (compared to UK prices).

Re: Finding work in France
 

There are plenty of tourism jobs during tourist season. If you live in the ski areas there are two tourist seasons a year. But wages in the tourist sector are notoriously low. Perfect for a vacation job for students but if you're a grown-up and here full time you might need to put enough aside to get through off-season. Go to a tourist hotspot at the end of March or early November and see how many job vacancies there are and how tons of British tourists there are around.