smithyandlisa

Etoile! I read your postings with great interest. Sounds like BE has it's very own Dog Whisperer. I'm pretty sure we did everything as you described with poor little Poppy who died, we'll never know what happened.
The only issue we have with our two now is the constant competition for my attention. I only have to move my position in the armchair and they are both immediately on red alert, and are both at my feet before I can blink. If I am on the sofa, one will jump on my lap and the little one will jump on my head!! Sounds funny I know, but it's not. Every time I move I am falling over them. They each just want to be the one closest to me. It's nice to be loved but it really is too much.

I'd love some advice.

I'd be happy to pm you if the other members are bored with my "tails" of woe!

Domino

there have been 261 views to this little thread, why would we get bored ??

.

smithyandlisa

Brilliant! I'm delighted. Looking forward to hearing from our resident expert..

Etoile de Berger

S&L you did make me laugh! I know EXACTLY what you mean! With 4 around me all day I have to be aware off where each one is when I move around although they too have developed a radar that tells them when to move out from under my feet. We each get to "feel" where we all are and they all want to be the shortest step away. I am sure someone could invent a ballroom dance called "dog and mistress".
Mine jump to attention from a calm position when I get up because they think it is time to be on duty and DO something. That is normal and quite good as they want to be kept busy. (difficult this time of year). I try to find some small thing to do to make them know they still get to do things with me even if it's a trip out in the car.

IMO your problem is jealousy between your two because as I said, being No 2 is a coveted position. One possible solution is to make something else No 2. If you sit on the sofa with your partner then they will come to understand that their place is somewhere else. Even better if your partner has some hand in controlling them during the day.

You could make it clear that one stays with your partner and one with you but your partner would have to reinforce that position by being another alpha equal during the day. I dont know how feasible that is.

Another solution (can also be in conjunction) is to put beds down for them and tell them squarely that this is THEIR place. Dogs are creatures of habit and routine when "off duty" and in the wild, alphas have THEIR place. They can decide how close or far they will let another dog into their personal circle and this becomes routinely understood. You may well have indicated that this part of the day is for cuddles and they both want to be closest (which also makes one higher in the pecking order than the other). If you can give them somewhere else to go, they will understand that YOUR bed area (the sofa) is YOURS. You will have to be firm but give lots of praise when they stay in THEIR space. Go over and pat them, tell them they are good for staying away and reinforce your alpha by going into THEIR space uninvited and being pleased with them. (kind of bestowing largesse). If you add a word like "stay" you can also add in some basic training! (don't forget the release word such "that'll do" and let them move around the room. ) But NOT to you! If they go to you, put them back on their beds. Real alphas growl when the pack doesn't respect them. A simple firm "no" usually works for humans but then tell them what you want...bed. Don't leave them confused as to where you prefer them to be.

Finally they can't be expected to stay there all evening so take them into the kitchen when you go, let them go to the loo door with you and if they get up for water, let them go. Take them out for a wee (use the word!). And make sure they go back onto BED.

Dogs don't need constant petting. They need constant security that you have it all under control and that they can rely on you. This is something an overly empathetic person can't understand and call those more detached owners "cold". Dog's aren't humans and they can mistake constant cuddling with weakness. A cuddle for a dog means they have done something pleasing and can get confused as to what they have done that is praiseworthy since one minute they are walking around as usual and the next you are scooping them up and saying "well done". WHAT was well done??? Sure some love it but you have made a rod for your own back and they keep coming back for more. Caresses when they have done something right is fine but they feel most loved when they feel safe with an invincible alpha. Be consistent.

Good luck! Do let me know how you get on. Dogs on your head can make it difficult to watch Corrie from between two back legs and a tail!

Etoile de Berger

S&L I did meant to mention your Poppy but got caught up in other things. I am so sorry to hear that she couldn't stay.

Sometimes it is just not possible to put an established female with a younger one no matter how hard you try. I was lucky in that respect in that I found my Jess, now 15 in March, available because she was always fighting with another bitch on the farm. Jess quickly became my soulmate and dowager duchess of the set but she would have been unhappy for her life if the owner had not let her go for her own good.

I learned early on that we have dogs for THEIR sake, not for ours. Otherwise they are mere possessions, If their sake is not being met, we should move them on. They deserve it. Five months is hard and you always think it might work out. It was a tough one to call and there is no cause for self-recrimination.

smithyandlisa

You're so so funny. I cried with laughter at your last line. Hubby and I always sit together on the sofa, they just get between or on top!. Our 10yo is content to just have one paw resting on your leg. It's almost like staking her claim. They both go to their beds when told to, but it's the reaching DefCon 1 status within a blink that's really wearing. I absolutely agree with you that it's a jealousy issue. They both sleep in their own beds all night, but the minute they hear the alarm clock in the morning, they are in our bedroom (downstairs) in a heartbeat. Our older dog never did that in 10 years. We have quite a bit of land, and the older dog is happy to wander around, (albeit with the small one stuck to her side) but the little one will never go out without her other than for a wee, and I'm sure at the age of 18 months he must have bundles of energy. Everytime he exits the door, he turns and waits for the older one. As you said, it's a bit more difficult to get them out in this weather. Hideous here yesterday and today.

Thanks for the great posting. If all else fails, he'll make a great hat.

smithyandlisa

Thanks for the really kind words....

Etoile de Berger

It all sounds absolutely normal. Pack positions etc.

Maybe you should forget the alarm clock???

smithyandlisa

Brilliant!

Domino

Oh So True ! how often do you see people out with their new "must have" possession !!

I have seen dogs being kicked at, lashed with lead, dragged down the street, turned into gibbering wrecks. Regrettably I lived in a neighbourhood where it was best to keep quiet, but that is hard.
Remember the old rule of Spare the Rod and Ruin the Child ?
The exact opposite applies to dogs.
So many dogs, including the much maligned pit bulls, are ruined by an owner who buys them for Christmas and has lost interest before Easter. An owner who if it was a child would have been up in court and the child put in to care. And I have seen their children treat the dog the same way, because it is what they have seen the parent do.

As I said earlier, we called our 3 "the kids", that is what they were. They reach the equivalent of a child 7 years and don't grow up any more. They enjoy love and attention, playing with toys and people. Yes they scrapped with each other, but all kids do that.
Still talked about 5 years on, still well remembered just like a lost child. The minimal walks the BH gets with our current dog, almost lap sized, never seem enough.

rgds

Domino

It sounds to me like they are getting well acclimatised. A good sign that one dog is stopping to wait for the older.
DefCon 1 - normal state with healthy dogs I seem to recall.
One of our dogs used to tense up at 21.59 every evening, when the first "BONG" of Big Ben for the start of News at Ten she was charging out to the kitchen door. If the progs were running late she still did it but on reaching the door turned to see if it was alright, as she hadnt heard the bong.

will have to stop getting mushy so early in the day.
rgds

smithyandlisa

Aaaawwww... nice to hear your memories

smithyandlisa

So which dog is the dominant one? He who waits, or she who is awaited?

Have a lovely Monday!

Etoile de Berger

First one throuigh the door is dominant.
It is a useful thing to use when trying to control a dog who thinks it owns you and the house.

Domino

well IMHE she who is awaited, the Alpha Female. he is looking for approval from her to go first, that she is there to back him up.

I have seen it with a bitch who always used to lead, she was always first out of the door, first in the car, first out, but always looked for approval
sometimes it was to prove she was capable up front but always sat down when told by the Alpha Female

the thing we (the 2 humans) used to forget, because we were in "total control" (or thought we were), that we were part of the pack, so it numbered 5, of which the Alpha Female was always there to protect.
I saw her cross a field to protect us from a dog that was approaching with another adult, she would have killed the dog but licked the adult to death.
She couldnt see any threat from another human.

does anyone else have any feelings/experience on this ?