Declaration Preable
 

A bit frustrating as previous posting are being closed which means opening a new one for an old topic. Anyway we want to build this pergola that we wanted to do some time ago but is outside the 20m2. I understand that we need to submit a DP. Does this always go to the town hall for agreement or are some DP made just with the Mayor? I am not wanting to waste time printing off and filling in 12 pages of bumph if it may not be necessary.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

To clarify, the actual Maire doesn't deal with the Déclaration préalable, but the Maire-Adjoint at the Mairie in charge of Urbanisation.

https://www.service-public.fr/partic...sdroits/F17578
https://www.service-public.fr/partic...osdroits/R2028

both give info as to the compulsory form to fill in and submit. If, for example, your proposed pergola is not "in keeping" with the general style or character of the Commune, they can refuse it.
To save on paper/ink costs, I'd be inclined to collect two copies of the form from the Mairie!

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Thanks DMU perfect.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Bloomin heck! I have filled in what I can. Most of it seems irrelevant for something so minor. I have done the DP and the office sent me an email stating which pieces I need to attach, ie photos etc. I just have some questions please?
1) the declaration des elements necessaires au calcul seem more for piscines, dovecotes etc. Is this section really relevant to Pergolas? I am sure someone on here has successfully done a DP before?
2) The pieces seem to go into lots of detail on what needs to be shown, ie plans etc. I was planning on sending in photos from garden, view from house towards road and one from the road to the house and also a 3D plan. Am I covering what I need to? Some of the pieces I don't fully understand?
That should do for now and thanks in advance. Thank god I am not building anything more :blink:

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Sorry, can't help there. We've only ever applied for a Permis de Construire for extensions of the house before we moved permanently, and the Architect did everything....

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Many have been caught in this latest expansion of seemingly pointless bureaucracy.


The old DP was simple.


The new one is little different from a full application. Have you been asked for satellite images or aerial photos yet? That may be yet to come.


When you've jumped through all the hoops you will get your permission.


The main thing at the end of all this and the reason for it is the infamous H1 form which you are required to fill in when the work is completed.


Be prepared for a large increase in your property taxes.


You can keep them off for a couple of years by 'not finishing' your work but they will eventually send someone around.


If you haven't yet submitted your forms you may think it better to bin them.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Oh. I see you have already submitted the form.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

No I haven't submitted them. How can taxes go up by building a pergola? Not understanding that one?

Re: Declaration Preable
 

It's considered an "improvement" to the property and the Taxe Foncière is based on the "rentable value" of a property. I.e. in the Fisc's mind, if you happened to rent it, you can ask for a higher rent if there's a pergola in the garden....
P.S. Are you still considering putting up a greenhouse?

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Hee hee not now I'm not, I am going to start taking things down. Tax is bad enough here without paying more :rofl:
What is to stop us building 2 small ones so they a not linked in the middle? We were going to build one down the side of the house 8m x 1.5m to follow a path. Why can't we do two? They will have plants trailing up them in time.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

It isn't just the additional value of the pergola. They constantly have changed the valuation criteria so any H1 form being completed will increase your tax.
In my village nobody dares to make building applications due to this.
One (Brit) had his taxes increase fourfold.
People build, they just don't make applications.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

How has his taxes increased and why? Thanks for the heads up on it anyway. May just alter the design a little.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

It depends on what alterations are made. An extra bathroom, bedrooms in the attic.... the Fisc will find out about any interior improvements. And visible changes outside will be seen straight away and noted (e.g. a Vélux in the roof can only mean an extra bedroom). The cost of the "improvement" isn't important, you could do it yourself with recycled materials, but it's the increased value of the whole property that they calculate (and possibly add fines for not submitting a declaration at the Mairie).

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Yes. We are waiting for a response from the mayor and have made an enquiry with the town hall but not hopeful we will bother doing anything unless the mayor is happy with 2 pergolas!!! ?????? Seems mental they you try and make your home more presentable and they want to charge you more on top for tax. Like everything in life I suppose.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

The H1 form is a fully detailed declaration of the whole state and size of the property, nowadays including parts not used for habitation (but could be), not just the 'improvements'. Even if you filled in one recently a new one will result in a rise in taxes.


The Brit whose taxes increased so much had been paying under the old regulations in place when he bought the property but had tidied up and opened a second bedroom.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Also, you may be liable to the local "planning" taxes applicable, such as TLE or TA. Even on a small outbuilding or shed, these can be fairly high.

See info here

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Funnily enough I have just spoken to our Notaire who is always a great point of contact. She said that if we build 2 pergolas under 5 m2 there is no come back and no need for the whole DP. We initially weren't sure about this. I do have a doubt about the fact there will not be a join but may look like a long pergola?? We were planning on maybe putting shrubs etc between the two? May work. These councils etc aren't the most helpful with info considering long term they sting everyone in taxes for trying to improve your home!

Re: Declaration Preable
 

I'm afraid your notaire is wrong. For a pergola of less than 20m2 you still need to do a déclaration préalable. Above 20m2 you will need a permis (although this is increased to 40m2 if the pergola is attached to the house).

You will find more information here (in French):-

http://www.declarationprealable.fr/g...-concernes.php

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Before your response I thought she was right and still do. I have spoken to a few people who have said the same thing that under 5m2 and it is not necessary. Isn't that the same as my question earlier this year about building a greenhouse. No DP etc if it is less than 5m2. Also there are a couple of houses around with small pergolas which all look around the same size. Hence my query over this.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

I sent you the link, you just need to read it. There has never been an exemption for 5m2.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Yes I can see that thank you but is this a new ruling?

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Our mayor's secretary sent us a link last year stating..... "Vous pouvez installer une serre sans formalité si la hauteur n'excède pas 1,80 mètre".

She also sent through a link to suggest this too? Her email before this was as follows....
"Vous trouverez ci-joint une information relative à l'installation d'annexes dans un jardin. Vous n'avez pas besoin de déposer une déclaration en mairie pour installer votre pergola ni pour refaire la surface autour de votre piscine".

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Yes, a greenhouse used for growing plants does not need to be declared if it is less than 1.80m (at its highest point). But a pergola is higher than this and is not used (exclusively) for growing plants. Do a DP for your pergola and you will not have a problem.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

I cannot forward the secretaries other link as it is photocopied onto an email but have just found this on the service public link. Her link was sent to us by the secretary at the end of last year. I will keep trying to attach a copy if poss. In the meantime this is what I have found which is very up to date, as of this evening!

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F31471

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Why would they let you build a permanent structure 12m tall (that's equivalent to 4 storeys high) but only 5m2 in area, it makes no sense? Best to check the PLU for your commune.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

What in France makes any sense?

Re: Declaration Preable
 

We had this discussion in another thread about a greenhouse, and agreed that 5 m² is impossible (for anything except for storing a few tools), even if it is 12 m high.
A pergola less than 5 m² isn't worth bothering to build....
So a pergola of up to 20m² must be declared, preferably before constructing it...

Re: Declaration Preable
 

There for the whole issue of yes I can build a pergola under 5m2 is indeed correct as mentioned by our Notaire and the secretary? Therefor I have wasted an hour of my evening justifying this surely? Yes a DP for more but it is possible to build 2 at 5m2 !

Re: Declaration Preable
 

You could have built the pergola in the time you have spend discussing it on this forum! Why not do what most people do here and just get on with it - I did one in a day having bought the timber from Leroy Merlin. If anyone asks or raises an objection its an easy enough thing to take down as a last resort. If not then it will be covered in climbing plants in a couple of years as if it has been there forever. If it was a masonry house extension or some significant the answer would have been different of course.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

I agree I have wasted time on here this evening and am not best happy about it. I have also emailed our Notaire again and doubted her, so again have wasted mine and her time. I also don't want to go to LM and buy one or two pergolas that I may have to tear down in a few months time. I don't want to be pissing off the mayor or anyone else come to that but agree! I also did not know about the taxes following the DP approval this morning so whilst this evening has been frustrating I also now know about the possible consequences of a DP. This pergola would also be attached to a house and is not a standard square size.Some neighbours her do have small pergolas so this was one reason I doubted the response on here about not needing a DP under 5m2.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Ah, so French! I was toying with the idea of a tree house 12m high, the view would be tremendous.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

Almost everything unless you're not French.

Re: Declaration Preable
 

...and when our pergola does get built I am going to add a 12m Union Jack to it 😆

Re: Declaration Preable
 

To clarify, YES my Notaire is right! I would need a DP for my pergola at 12m2 but NOT if it is 5m2 or two at that size. Seems to be confusion by using websites that are anything other than the "service public" website. This was confirmed this morning by the town hall. Wrong info has caused a lot of unnecessary confusion on here so if in doubt:confused: Also there is no tax on pergolas!!