Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
Jul 12th 2019, 4:38 pm
#1
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Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
Hi All,
I managed to get my French tax returns in on time with the help of copying and pasting from the online form and notes and using DeepL translator. I have now received a Declaration des revenus fociers 2018 to explain in greater detail our UK rental income (we are inactif). I think it's because our household income clearly exceeds the 15000 euro threshold for the Regime Micro Foncier. I say clearly because we officially came to France on November 11th so our listed income was for less than 2 months of French tax year. I probably got a bit smug succeeding with the last form, but this appears to be on another level of complication. Has anyone filled out one of these and is it more complicated than it looks? Of course one of our problems is the overlap of UK and French tax years. We haven't done our 2018-2019 UK ones yet, though we have all the information.
Any advice/encouragement gratefully accepted.
I managed to get my French tax returns in on time with the help of copying and pasting from the online form and notes and using DeepL translator. I have now received a Declaration des revenus fociers 2018 to explain in greater detail our UK rental income (we are inactif). I think it's because our household income clearly exceeds the 15000 euro threshold for the Regime Micro Foncier. I say clearly because we officially came to France on November 11th so our listed income was for less than 2 months of French tax year. I probably got a bit smug succeeding with the last form, but this appears to be on another level of complication. Has anyone filled out one of these and is it more complicated than it looks? Of course one of our problems is the overlap of UK and French tax years. We haven't done our 2018-2019 UK ones yet, though we have all the information.
Any advice/encouragement gratefully accepted.
Jul 12th 2019, 7:50 pm
#2
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
Hello,
My understanding is you don't pay tax on your UK rental income. You have to declare it though as it will increase your tax rate on French income.
My understanding is you don't pay tax on your UK rental income. You have to declare it though as it will increase your tax rate on French income.
Jul 12th 2019, 8:42 pm
#3
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
That's right. The tax agreement between UK and France, which thankfully has nothing to do with our soon to be terminated membership of the EU, means we won't have to pay tax twice. However I am discovering that the necessary paperwork is getting complicated.
Jul 13th 2019, 9:31 am
#4
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
As DMU says, UK rental income is taxable in the UK not in France. Are you absolutely sure you entered it in the right box on the form, as foreign income? If the fisc are wanting to apply a French tax regime it rather suggests they think it is income taxable in France. Although obviously they do need to work out how much tax would be applied in France if it were taxable in France, in order to apply the DTA, so maybe this is normal.
On the other side of the Channel, it sounds as if you applied to HMRC for permission to declare your rental income through self assesment? Because if you rent through an agency, it might be simpler to pay tax at source. https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/rent
Probably best to take all your paperwork go and sit down with someone at the French tax office and come away with it all sorted to everyone's satisfaction, rather than toing and froing with correspondence that drags on and risks misunderstandings on both sides. The staff at the tax office are very helpful as a rule.
On the other side of the Channel, it sounds as if you applied to HMRC for permission to declare your rental income through self assesment? Because if you rent through an agency, it might be simpler to pay tax at source. https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/rent
Probably best to take all your paperwork go and sit down with someone at the French tax office and come away with it all sorted to everyone's satisfaction, rather than toing and froing with correspondence that drags on and risks misunderstandings on both sides. The staff at the tax office are very helpful as a rule.
Jul 13th 2019, 1:16 pm
#5
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
As DMU says, UK rental income is taxable in the UK not in France. Are you absolutely sure you entered it in the right box on the form, as foreign income? If the fisc are wanting to apply a French tax regime it rather suggests they think it is income taxable in France. Although obviously they do need to work out how much tax would be applied in France if it were taxable in France, in order to apply the DTA, so maybe this is normal.
On the other side of the Channel, it sounds as if you applied to HMRC for permission to declare your rental income through self assesment? Because if you rent through an agency, it might be simpler to pay tax at source. https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/rent
Probably best to take all your paperwork go and sit down with someone at the French tax office and come away with it all sorted to everyone's satisfaction, rather than toing and froing with correspondence that drags on and risks misunderstandings on both sides. The staff at the tax office are very helpful as a rule.
On the other side of the Channel, it sounds as if you applied to HMRC for permission to declare your rental income through self assesment? Because if you rent through an agency, it might be simpler to pay tax at source. https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/rent
Probably best to take all your paperwork go and sit down with someone at the French tax office and come away with it all sorted to everyone's satisfaction, rather than toing and froing with correspondence that drags on and risks misunderstandings on both sides. The staff at the tax office are very helpful as a rule.
Not "probably".
In my Tax Office, it's best to make an appointment rather than turn up on the off-chance and wait ages. The staff are always very helpful.
Jul 13th 2019, 1:43 pm
#6
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
Thank for the replies. In fact from what I have translated so far the form is just to ensure that I don't get taxed twice and seems to be about being more specific about my rental income and possible subtractions from work done on the flats than the simple figure I put down, interpolating the rent we received from 11th November when we arrived to 31st December. I'm pretty sure I filled in the correct boxes on my tax form, partly from someone on this forum asking the same question and other information from The Connexion tax special issue. Our UK accountant is dealing with HMRC to allow us to carry on submitting returns and paying UK tax yearly.
I'll take DMU's advice and arrange a visit with the local tax office, I hope my French is up to it. I'll start learning specific words and terms to help me along.
I'll take DMU's advice and arrange a visit with the local tax office, I hope my French is up to it. I'll start learning specific words and terms to help me along.
Jul 13th 2019, 1:44 pm
#7
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
Sorry, both of your advice.
Jul 14th 2019, 7:11 am
#8
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
M
I also declared UK rental income for the first time this spring. We only started renting out the house on 1 October 2018 so the rental income for 2018 (just October, November & December) was well below the €15,000 threshold for declaring under the “micro foncier” system. So far, we haven’t been asked for any further details.
I was wondering whether next spring I should actually do my UK tax return first (as soon after 6 April as possible) and then just use the same figures in the French return. Despite the fact that the tax years do not correspond.
I’m pretty sure I was advised to do this at some point but can’t remember who advised me.
Presumably the thinking is that if the fisc checks with HMRC, at least the figures will tally.
I’d be interested to know if anybody else takes this approach.
Alianco, while you’re at the tax office, maybe mention social charges and make sure - diplomatically of course- they realise that not only is UK rental income not taxable in France, it’s not subject to social charges either.
Good luck!
Thank for the replies. In fact from what I have translated so far the form is just to ensure that I don't get taxed twice and seems to be about being more specific about my rental income and possible subtractions from work done on the flats than the simple figure I put down, interpolating the rent we received from 11th November when we arrived to 31st December. I'm pretty sure I filled in the correct boxes on my tax form, partly from someone on this forum asking the same question and other information from The Connexion tax special issue. Our UK accountant is dealing with HMRC to allow us to carry on submitting returns and paying UK tax yearly.
I'll take DMU's advice and arrange a visit with the local tax office, I hope my French is up to it. I'll start learning specific words and terms to help me along.
I'll take DMU's advice and arrange a visit with the local tax office, I hope my French is up to it. I'll start learning specific words and terms to help me along.
I was wondering whether next spring I should actually do my UK tax return first (as soon after 6 April as possible) and then just use the same figures in the French return. Despite the fact that the tax years do not correspond.
I’m pretty sure I was advised to do this at some point but can’t remember who advised me.
Presumably the thinking is that if the fisc checks with HMRC, at least the figures will tally.
I’d be interested to know if anybody else takes this approach.
Alianco, while you’re at the tax office, maybe mention social charges and make sure - diplomatically of course- they realise that not only is UK rental income not taxable in France, it’s not subject to social charges either.
Good luck!
Jul 14th 2019, 9:03 am
#9
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
Helen1964
Yes our income was well below the 15,000 threshold as well, being only part of November and December, but yearly it would clearly be well over that. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was one of your comments on which boxes to fill in on the tax forms that I followed. I'm assuming I have simply been chosen either randomly or because of some information I included that made them want confirmation of our situation by way of more info. I'll make an appointment tomorrow and see what happens.
Yes our income was well below the 15,000 threshold as well, being only part of November and December, but yearly it would clearly be well over that. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was one of your comments on which boxes to fill in on the tax forms that I followed. I'm assuming I have simply been chosen either randomly or because of some information I included that made them want confirmation of our situation by way of more info. I'll make an appointment tomorrow and see what happens.
Jul 14th 2019, 1:32 pm
#10
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
Best of luck. If it’s anything like our tax office, you’ll get different answers depending on who you speak to. They seem to make up the rules as they go along.
They’re usually pleasant enough, though.
They’re usually pleasant enough, though.
Jul 18th 2019, 7:47 am
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
Something that came from my appointment with the tax inspector that may be of interest to others in a similar situation is that he gave me their official sterling to euro exchange rate calculated as an average for the French tax year.
Jul 18th 2019, 11:58 am
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
Jul 18th 2019, 1:37 pm
#13
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
For my private pension, the company exchanges it (Citybank I think) and sends me Euros.
Over the 23 years, I never got a complaint from the tax office though
it stays like that.
Jul 19th 2019, 1:55 pm
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
I didn't know they have and use this ... I just use the real figures on whatever I receive in France during the year.
For my private pension, the company exchanges it (Citybank I think) and sends me Euros.
Over the 23 years, I never got a complaint from the tax office though it stays like that.
For my private pension, the company exchanges it (Citybank I think) and sends me Euros.
Over the 23 years, I never got a complaint from the tax office though
it stays like that.I'd been instructing my UK bank for a year or so to make 3 annual transfers to my French bank - until I saw the errors of my way. Then started using a reliable transfer provider, and never looked back.
Jul 19th 2019, 4:10 pm
#15
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Re: Declarartion des revenus fonciers 2018
If you've been getting a private bank rate over the years, surely you've done yourself out of a fair amount of money compared to using a recommended currency transfer provider.
I'd been instructing my UK bank for a year or so to make 3 annual transfers to my French bank - until I saw the errors of my way. Then started using a reliable transfer provider, and never looked back.
I'd been instructing my UK bank for a year or so to make 3 annual transfers to my French bank - until I saw the errors of my way. Then started using a reliable transfer provider, and never looked back.
I asume it has to do with how much they exchange every month. It is BP so they must be a big costumer.
