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Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Old Apr 15th 2010, 8:15 am
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Default Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Hi All, newbies here.

I would like to pick your learned brains please

Myself, hubby and 3 kids (18, 13 & 9) are considering the implications of a move to France from the UK and would like to buy a property either with an outbuilding to renovate and rent out as a gite or buy a separate rental property local to where we move to.

The main concern we have are the ages of our two youngest children - is it too late to move them in terms of schooling/learning a forgeign language (13 year old does do French at school here and seems to be doing fairly well in the subject) but 9 year old has very limited knowledge as at his school they have only been doing French for a year. Is there racism from pupils in schools in terms of 'foreigners' coming in?

Any advice for complete novices on the rental business? What if any are the pitfalls of starting a rental business in France?

We will have approx Euros300,000 and would be looking at South France - with this budget, and bearing in mind we'd need to buy a 4/5 bed property for ourselves with an existing cottage/outbuilding for renovation in the grounds or a separate 2/3 bed property for letting, any comments on the best areas for a family to move to with a good tourist trade?

I will have lots of other questions along the way but these are our main concerns at the moment.

Thanks for any advice/comments.

Kind regards
Kay
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Old Apr 15th 2010, 9:21 am
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Hi!
Can't advise on schooling as my two were born here, and don't know anything about gîtes and rentals except for what's said on this forum (you need another source of income to survive, esp. with 3 children...), but...
Welcome to the Forum!
Those who have experienced bringing children over and/or opening gîtes will soon come along to help, and I can just advise you to learn French yourselves in order to cope with the inevitable officialdom (administrative, fiscal, legal, ...)
Good luck, anyway!
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Old Apr 15th 2010, 1:20 pm
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Some people here have made the move with older children who have made the transition into the schools very nicely, though it may not work for everyone, and might cause big problems if you have children coming up towards the age for taking exams.

Property seems to have gone up a lot in recent times, and in the south you will have stiff competition not only from the French, but from many Brits and Dutch who are trying to make a living by the same means. The gite industry isn't that regulated, so a lot of people do it to make a little extra cash on the side. There was a program on M6 the other night about some of the more successful gite/B&B owners who did well with it, but I think there's something like only 6000 gite owners in the country who can make a full time living from that alone (can't remember where on earth I got that number from, but I believe I read it in a book about buying property in France)

Up until recently I'd planned to do the same thing, with a similar budget, but I've now given up on the idea. I think it would be too hard to make it work. I'm now just looking for a good sized family house, with hopefully a couple of spare rooms that can be rented out in the summer months (this way you don't have to register as a business, you can just declare the income with your tax return), and will continue working as I am.

There was a discussion about racism in France in the forums recently. I don't think many people have fallen victim of it. I've had no issues, and I think the English get treated a lot more nicely than the French would in the UK. The English don't seem to tolerate immigrants who do not speak the language very well, but here in France they have a lot more patience (usually!)

Don't forget with your budget, there will be a lot of hidden expenses. Notaire fees, possible immobilier fees, renovation work. It also pays to work out what your taxe fonciere and taxe d'habitation fees might run to. If you live and work in France, you'll most likely be set up on the Auto-Entropeneur scheme, which means you'll have to work within certain thresholds unless you want to be VAT registered. This keeps things simple, and means you can do your own accounts without too many headaches. Having three kids means you will probably have no income tax to pay, but income tax is peanuts compared to social contributions, which are mighty high, and if you don't factor in for that, the dream can turn into a nightmare. They say social contributions work out to around 45% of your net profit, but should never be more than 50%.

Last edited by G-J-B; Apr 15th 2010 at 1:23 pm.
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Old Apr 16th 2010, 8:53 am
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

One gite, without any other form of income will not work. You need a minimum of three, rented out all through the summer months, as well as a good portion of the rest of the year too. It's hard work, the people aspect can be wearing, never mind the physical work involved. If you do changeovers yourself, forget having saturdays to yourself. If you pay for help, then you're liable for their social contributions too. Unless they work au noire. We have three gites as well as a small campsite here. If we didn't have such a large mortgage on the place, we'd be fine, but we're happy just getting by. They complement each other well. When the gites aren't particularly busy, the camping does well and vice versa. Be prepared to spend hours of your day simply marketing your place. Treat it as a full-time job and you may be ok.

Schooling. Don't worry about the two youngest, worry about your 18 year old. What's he/she going to do for a living with no language skills? With the other two, don't worry either about them passing exams. France still has a system of apprentissages that can offer great metiers for 16's & over, without the need for exam qualifications. To qualify this - our kids were 18, 16 & 13 when we moved 5 years ago. The younger two are still here in France, both with jobs, both having apprenticeships. The youngest is an apprentice roofer with a French comapny, and the middle one, having passed all her apprenticeship exams in hotellerie now owns her own restaurant with her french boyfriend.
The eldest struggled. Although he loves France, he couldn't find quality work here, and struggled with the language. But, after a nomadic couple of years drifting around France & the UK doing seasonal work, he now lives & works on Herm Island as a chef.

Look into the different business regimes before you buy. They differ in terms of what you have to provide by way of accounts, and also in terms of what you have to 'spend' in terms of social contributions. Make sure you employ the services of a good comptable (accountant) who will giude you through the 'ins & outs' of the French tax system. It's not for the faint hearted, I assure you.

Look carefully at different areas. Check out listings websites for holiday homes. Look at the availability calendars for holiday homes in the areas you're interested in. Try to pick a spot with good road and rail links, as well as close to airports (the more, the better). Don't limit yourselves to just one area. It may be that the area you like the best is just saturated with choice, which isn't good for you. Don't rely on the UK market either. Look to the EU market, but that will also mean that your prices will have to reflect the general reluctance of the French, Italians, Dutch to pay alot less than their British counterparts. Look at other nearby gits to see what they offer and what they charge. That should give you a clue as to what folks are willing to pay.

Try to have a USP - Unique Selling Point. You could offer language courses, be close to a well-known surfing beach, or a ski resort. Whatever it is, use it and trade on it.

Hope all that helps. If you need more info, just ask.

Last edited by Le Chant; Apr 16th 2010 at 8:59 am.
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Old Apr 16th 2010, 7:46 pm
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Roll the dice.....!!
If you do not try then you will never know,personally its just like britain with a few strange querks and a different language.....difficult but not impossible to handle with a open mind and a hard skin.
Best of luck......
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Old Apr 16th 2010, 9:24 pm
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Originally Posted by Le Chant
Look at other nearby gits to see what they offer and what they charge.
Typo of the year nomination?

Hi Stu, we'll be back on July 2nd. Hope all is well with you and yours.
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Old Apr 16th 2010, 9:46 pm
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Who says it was a typo?
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Old Apr 17th 2010, 7:17 am
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Look at other nearby gits to see what they offer and what they charge.
Haha, I see I wasn't the first to notice that one. I was going to say it was probably a Freudian slip.
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Old Apr 17th 2010, 7:46 am
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Gav & Novo - you've obviously not met many gite owners?
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Old Apr 17th 2010, 9:05 pm
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Does that gite game work....
Went to a gite in the Alps last year, no so great.
Always saw it as a supplmentry thing someone offerd while doing somthing like farming or other....
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Old Apr 17th 2010, 9:38 pm
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

We nearly moved to France had the block of land bought ready to build the lot but then moved to Australia instead.

With hindsight pleased we did as my French and my sons was never fantastic despite years of holidaying there and job prospects were a lot lower for all of the family including sons future.

Have found Aus to offer the best of both worlds, the French type weather but almost no launguage barrier once you learn Australian, a fine art in it's self as they pronounce so many things different to Aus.

Originally Posted by bonchance
Hi All, newbies here.

I would like to pick your learned brains please

Myself, hubby and 3 kids (18, 13 & 9) are considering the implications of a move to France from the UK and would like to buy a property either with an outbuilding to renovate and rent out as a gite or buy a separate rental property local to where we move to.

The main concern we have are the ages of our two youngest children - is it too late to move them in terms of schooling/learning a forgeign language (13 year old does do French at school here and seems to be doing fairly well in the subject) but 9 year old has very limited knowledge as at his school they have only been doing French for a year. Is there racism from pupils in schools in terms of 'foreigners' coming in?

Any advice for complete novices on the rental business? What if any are the pitfalls of starting a rental business in France?

We will have approx Euros300,000 and would be looking at South France - with this budget, and bearing in mind we'd need to buy a 4/5 bed property for ourselves with an existing cottage/outbuilding for renovation in the grounds or a separate 2/3 bed property for letting, any comments on the best areas for a family to move to with a good tourist trade?

I will have lots of other questions along the way but these are our main concerns at the moment.

Thanks for any advice/comments.

Kind regards
Kay
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Old Apr 17th 2010, 11:14 pm
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Originally Posted by Le Chant
Gav & Novo - you've obviously not met many gite owners?
Just the two. Neither of you were gits.
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Old Apr 18th 2010, 7:28 am
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

Originally Posted by Nibbler
Does that gite game work....
Went to a gite in the Alps last year, no so great.
Always saw it as a supplmentry thing someone offerd while doing somthing like farming or other....
Yes it does work. If you do it properly, and treat it as a full-time job.
You're right in that a 'gite' was originally a supplementary income for a farmer, who'd converted a barn or some out-building into accommodation. basic though it was when first thought of, a gite is now a home from home. Some in stunning locations. It's just self-catering accommodation, the same as you find the world over. Some are good, some are bad.
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Old Apr 18th 2010, 9:57 am
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

I'm not an expert on the whole of the south, obviously but I'm afraid to say that round the area I DO know well (Vaucluse and Bouches du Rhone) your budget sounds a little modest for a large house PLUS gite/outbuilding.

Obviously you will get better value elsewhere, but you have to balance that with the tourist trade. Less well known areas will need more marketing.
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Old Apr 20th 2010, 7:09 pm
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Default Re: Considering moving to France - are we mad???

I apologise in advance for the hijack but.........




Originally Posted by Le Chant
One gite, without any other form of income will not work. You need a minimum of three, rented out all through the summer months, as well as a good portion of the rest of the year too. It's hard work, the people aspect can be wearing, never mind the physical work involved. If you do changeovers yourself, forget having saturdays to yourself. If you pay for help, then you're liable for their social contributions too. Unless they work au noire. We have three gites as well as a small campsite here. If we didn't have such a large mortgage on the place, we'd be fine, but we're happy just getting by. They complement each other well. When the gites aren't particularly busy, the camping does well and vice versa. Be prepared to spend hours of your day simply marketing your place. Treat it as a full-time job and you may be ok.
This is pretty much what we're looking at doing but in Brittany. We're going over end of June to have a poke around.

If you don't mind my asking, PM a reply if you'd prefer (that's assuming you want to answer at all ) but how much is the mortgage in value and %age wise?

We're looking at a mortgage of +/- 200,000 euros against a propeerty value double that and one of the concerns was if there would be sufficient income to cover that and provide living expenses with us doing all the running and change overs etc.

Anyway, back on topic. I hope things work out for the OP. We don't post much on here but my wife does read it a lot and the regulars on here are very helpful.
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