British Expats

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-   -   Claiming benefits in France (https://britishexpats.com/forum/france-76/claiming-benefits-france-842985/)

emzter19 Sep 12th 2014 12:14 pm

Claiming benefits in France
 
Hi all,

I am new here and i am really hoping someone can help me by answering a few questions i have about moving to France with a young family.:confused:

My husband and I are thinking about moving to France in the new year with our 2 young daughters, as we have family members over there who have been trying to sell it to us for years lol.

I currently work part-time and my husband works full time, but for the first few months upon arrival in France, my husband will be working with his brother in law to earn some money, so i was wondering what benefits, if any, we could claim?

We currently receive DLA for our eldest and Carer's Allowance and i was wondering if they have the same in France or something similar?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Emma

dmu Sep 12th 2014 1:02 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by emzter19 (Post 11402280)
Hi all,

I am new here and i am really hoping someone can help me by answering a few questions i have about moving to France with a young family.:confused:

My husband and I are thinking about moving to France in the new year with our 2 young daughters, as we have family members over there who have been trying to sell it to us for years lol.

I currently work part-time and my husband works full time, but for the first few months upon arrival in France, my husband will be working with his brother in law to earn some money, so i was wondering what benefits, if any, we could claim?

We currently receive DLA for our eldest and Carer's Allowance and i was wondering if they have the same in France or something similar?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Emma

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!
Others will come along re any benefits that might be transferable to France, or how to go about getting Family Allowances for your 2nd child (the princely sum of 129,35€ per month), but I would be more worried about healthcare coverage.
If your brother-in-law employs your OH officially and he pays into the French Social Security, then you'll be covered, but you'd be advised to take out a Mutuelle (top-up insurance) to reimburse the 30% that the French S.S. doesn't reimburse. If he works on the black, then you'd have to take out private insurance until such times as one of you is legally employed. With two young children, and one in need of special care, you must have health insurance of some sort.... Your elder would also have to cope with communicating with medical staff and carers - contrary to popular belief, professionals don't necessarily speak English.
What are your lines of work? Do you both speak adequate French? Considering the ever-increasing unemployment rate in France which will continue if the current laws aren't changed, this isn't the moment to envisage moving to France. Priority for any work going is given to French jobseekers (who are often bilingual).
If your family is doing well here, then fair enough, but it's not a reason to come and join them if there's no guarantee of finding work when the temporary job comes to an end.
Another question, how old are your children? You would need to justify your domicile (Property Deed, rent receipts, Utility bills, ...) before you could enrol them at Maternelle/Primaire or any Municipal Childcare Centres.
Hope all this gives you food for thought!

emzter19 Sep 12th 2014 3:11 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 
Thank you very much for your reply and the information dmu.

My husband would not be paying into the French SS so i would need private cover, he is going to paid in cash or by BT from my brother-in-law.

I sell handmade bunting, quilts etc in the UK from my facebook page aswell as working part-time, so i was thinking of using my page to try and drum up some business in France, but as my husband and I do not speak French that well, it may be difficult to communicate.

My children are 3yrs old and 6 yrs old and i am taking a trip to France at the end of this month to meet with a couple of schools and generally find out more info before i make such a huge decision to relocate.:unsure:

Novocastrian Sep 12th 2014 3:41 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by emzter19 (Post 11402498)
Thank you very much for your reply and the information dmu.

My husband would not be paying into the French SS so i would need private cover, he is going to paid in cash or by BT from my brother-in-law.

I sell handmade bunting, quilts etc in the UK from my facebook page aswell as working part-time, so i was thinking of using my page to try and drum up some business in France, but as my husband and I do not speak French that well, it may be difficult to communicate.

My children are 3yrs old and 6 yrs old and i am taking a trip to France at the end of this month to meet with a couple of schools and generally find out more info before i make such a huge decision to relocate.:unsure:

Realistically, have your holiday with your relations, enjoy it and use it to ask them gently if they really think you're nuts.

Chatter Static Sep 12th 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11402549)
Realistically, have your holiday with your relations, enjoy it and use it to ask them gently if they really think you're nuts.

Im happy to offer a second opinion being relatively crazy I consider myself highly qualified in the field....

dmu Sep 12th 2014 4:33 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by emzter19 (Post 11402498)
Thank you very much for your reply and the information dmu.

My husband would not be paying into the French SS so i would need private cover, he is going to paid in cash or by BT from my brother-in-law.

I sell handmade bunting, quilts etc in the UK from my facebook page aswell as working part-time, so i was thinking of using my page to try and drum up some business in France, but as my husband and I do not speak French that well, it may be difficult to communicate.

My children are 3yrs old and 6 yrs old and i am taking a trip to France at the end of this month to meet with a couple of schools and generally find out more info before i make such a huge decision to relocate.:unsure:

Bad news, if your OH will be paid on the black. In the event of an accident at work, he'd get nothing and your brother-in-law would be sanctioned.
Have you any idea how much a private healthcare insurance (which wouldn't normally cover such an accident as it would be an illegal situation) would cost for a family of 4, including a special-needs child?
If you wish to sell your creations, you'd have to set yourself up as an Auto-Entrepreneur, with all the bureaucracy involved. At least you'd have Social Security coverage, but AFAIK from this forum, you'd have to pay into the System even if you don't have any turnover.
You must budget for all the above before even counting the usual cost of living for a family of 4.
The good news is that your children would quickly become bilingual.
They would go to Maternelle and Primaire, but you first register them at the Mairie of the Commune where you'll be living and the Mairie allocates you the schools nearest to your domicile. You can go visiting some schools during your trip, but without the justification of domicile that I mentioned above, you can't enrol them anywhere.
Rather than "trying to sell it to you" for years, your family should be telling you all this practical information!!

Touraine Sep 12th 2014 4:40 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 
Don't work on the black....really. It will end in tears.

The chances are you will get caught and you will lose everything. It takes one expat in your area with a grudge to put the boot in and its finished.

If you are bringing kids with you....it really is not a good idea.

Tweedpipe Sep 12th 2014 4:42 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11402549)
Realistically, have your holiday with your relations, enjoy it and use it to ask them gently if they really think you're nuts.

What NovoC is really saying, is that there's really been no worse a time to pack up and move to France.
I would advise that you spend a little time - no, make that a lot of time reading through past posts on this French forum.
Things have become so bad that news reports today were showing large queues of people outside the tax offices hoping to obtain agreed methods to delay their first yearly payments now due. With the extremely difficult times and rise in the cost of living, they simply are unable to pay. Many of these people on a low wage, were in the past below the taxable threshold. Despite government promises made in 2012 that there would be no extra taxes, things changed dramatically for 2013/14, resulting in severe hardships that are difficult to comprehend for the average tourist to France.
Thrift shops needless to say are doing a roaring trade, things are really that bad.
I've deliberately not mentioned the work situation, you'll read the bitter facts elsewhere.
Finally, just a brief word of caution. You mention your husband could be paid in cash for his work. This is effectively travail au noir which is illegal, and is being closely monitored by the relevant authorities.

dmu Sep 12th 2014 6:15 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Tweedpipe (Post 11402653)
Finally, just a brief word of caution. You mention your husband could be paid in cash for his work. This is effectively travail au noir which is illegal, and is being closely monitored by the relevant authorities.

The URSSAF in particular, which the OP's b-i-l must be familiar with.
As an anecdote, we used to employ a handyman, paid by Chèque-Emploi after a brief period "au noir". The village spy (and they do exist) denounced us during the illegal period, and we found the URSSAF at the door. Luckily for us we were in the Chèque-Emploi system by then, but it could have ended badly for all concerned.
Whatever people may believe, it CAN happen to oneself (cf. another thread called Sod's Law) and it would be foolish not to follow the French rules and regulations, esp. expats who have no idea of the consequences.....

Im_and_Er Sep 12th 2014 7:19 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 
Don't forget that the French enjoy nothing more than 'dobbing' somebody in, if you're working on the black you will get caught and the days of living under the radar are long gone.

France is NOT the same as UK !

Chatter Static Sep 12th 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Im_and_Er (Post 11402822)
France is NOT the same as UK !

The UK is not the same as the UK

emzter19 Sep 12th 2014 8:33 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 
I really do appreciate all of your comments and i understand your concerns about my husband's plan to work for cash.
It wasn't his most definate plan but an idea that we will now avoid! i have heard mixed reviews about living in France recently, especially when it comes to bringing my children, some say i should make the move because my children will thrive more in the schools and they will have a better way of life, but i did not hear how bad things are in terms of the money situation, i suppose it depends on which department you live in?

Novocastrian Sep 12th 2014 8:36 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Chatter Static (Post 11402828)
The UK is not the same as the UK

It is until next Thursday.

dmu Sep 12th 2014 8:54 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by emzter19 (Post 11402877)
but i did not hear how bad things are in terms of the money situation, i suppose it depends on which department you live in?

No, it's national.:(

Novocastrian Sep 12th 2014 9:03 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by emzter19 (Post 11402877)
I really do appreciate all of your comments and i understand your concerns about my husband's plan to work for cash.
It wasn't his most definate plan but an idea that we will now avoid! i have heard mixed reviews about living in France recently, especially when it comes to bringing my children, some say i should make the move because my children will thrive more in the schools and they will have a better way of life, but i did not hear how bad things are in terms of the money situation, i suppose it depends on which department you live in?

What does your husband do for a living? Unless he can differentiate himself in a very positive way from french people in the same job he'll be extremely unlikely to find legitimate work, especially as his french is limited as you said.

This has always been true and is even more so in the present economic climate.

To paraphrase Mr. Nike, just don't do it.

Novocastrian Sep 12th 2014 9:06 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Tweedpipe (Post 11402922)
And Wales until......<enter a date>......;)
(I bet not many of you knew that in the 70's a Welsh banker once issued a private series of banknotes which had to be approved by the Board of Trade. They were never granted legal tender in Wales, otherwise they could have had a status similar to Scottish or Irish banknotes).
They became known as the Black Sheep banknotes. I have one somewhere.

I, for one, did not know that. Is your banknote valuable?

Tweedpipe Sep 12th 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11402882)
It is until next Thursday.

And Wales until......<enter a date>......;)
(I bet not many of you knew that in the 70's a Welsh banker once issued a private series of banknotes which had to be approved by the Board of Trade. They were never granted legal tender in Wales, otherwise they could have had a status similar to Scottish or Irish banknotes).
They became known as the Black Sheep banknotes. I have one somewhere.

Novocastrian Sep 12th 2014 9:11 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 
Note to future readers: I am not prescient. TP was just having a wobble.

Tweedpipe Sep 12th 2014 9:13 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11402882)
It is until next Thursday.


Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11402926)
I, for one, did not know that. Is your banknote valuable?

Sorry, thought I posted twice there. :o
Valuable? Probably not. But my Anti-Hanging British banknote is. ;)

Novocastrian Sep 12th 2014 9:19 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Tweedpipe (Post 11402937)
Sorry, thought I posted twice there. :o
Valuable? Probably not. But my Anti-Hanging British banknote is. ;)

I'll bite. What is an Anti-Hanging British banknote?

Chatter Static Sep 12th 2014 9:41 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11402948)
I'll bite. What is an Anti-Hanging British banknote?

Honestly what did you do that for, TP doesn't need egging on.

Novocastrian Sep 12th 2014 10:22 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Chatter Static (Post 11402975)
Honestly what did you do that for, TP doesn't need egging on.

Life-long learning, innit?

Tweedpipe Sep 13th 2014 7:07 am

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Chatter Static (Post 11402975)
Honestly what did you do that for, TP doesn't need egging on.

Spoilsport! I aint gonna tell now......;)

(Novo, you have a PM)

(ChatterS, you don't know what you're missing)....:amen:

JWL Sep 13th 2014 10:14 am

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11402882)
It is until next Thursday.

Scotland couldn't possibly be so daft...:fingerscrossed:

dmu Sep 13th 2014 11:08 am

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 
Getting back on topic:sneaky:
I hoped someone would reply to the original question in the title, if only to confirm that the OP wouldn't be entitled to any, and give another reason for advising potential expats in the same position not to pursue their dream.

Chatter Static Sep 13th 2014 11:30 am

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by dmu (Post 11403525)
Getting back on topic:sneaky:
I hoped someone would reply to the original question in the title, if only to confirm that the OP wouldn't be entitled to any, and give another reason for advising potential expats in the same position not to pursue their dream.

If the OP registered as unemployed which she can do but get no money she would "A" get French Lessons if they are still offering them and "B" gain access to the online Pôle emploi "Job Seekers" website if you are not registered applying for the jobs via the site or office is nigh on impossible and that is where you find all the less skilled employment.

dmu Sep 13th 2014 11:56 am

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Chatter Static (Post 11403539)
If the OP registered as unemployed which she can do but get no money she would "A" get French Lessons if they are still offering them and "B" gain access to the online Pôle emploi "Job Seekers" website if you are not registered applying for the jobs via the site or office is nigh on impossible and that is where you find all the less skilled employment.

No, I meant benefits for her child as per #1

Chatter Static Sep 13th 2014 1:31 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by dmu (Post 11403555)
No, I meant benefits for her child as per #1

Oops, yes they will have to get busy for that:lol:

mikelincs Sep 13th 2014 1:49 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by emzter19 (Post 11402280)
Hi all,

I am new here and i am really hoping someone can help me by answering a few questions i have about moving to France with a young family.:confused:

My husband and I are thinking about moving to France in the new year with our 2 young daughters, as we have family members over there who have been trying to sell it to us for years lol.

I currently work part-time and my husband works full time, but for the first few months upon arrival in France, my husband will be working with his brother in law to earn some money, so i was wondering what benefits, if any, we could claim?

We currently receive DLA for our eldest and Carer's Allowance and i was wondering if they have the same in France or something similar?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Emma

Can I suggest, as a first thing, you read the following thread and the article that goes with it.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/franc...france-842914/

Debra186 Sep 18th 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 
Carer's allowance and DLA are exportable to France. See here https://www.gov.uk/exportability-team

Debra186 Sep 18th 2014 7:45 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 
If you were working under the AE regime (contributions based upon a percentage of your turnover) then you would be entitled to healthcare and to receive family benefits from France. Allocation Familiales is 129,35 € for two children. There are supplements as the children get older. See here Les allocations familiales (Af) | caf.fr

There is also a supplement called 'complement familiale' which differs according to income. See here Le complément familial(Cf) | caf.fr

Each school year there is a payment per schooled child to help with costs of school materials. This differs depending upon your income too. See here L’allocation de rentrée scolaire (Ars) | caf.fr

That's the standard allowances for kids, that I know of. If you're working you can also claim RSA if your income is low. I know people who are AEs do get this but I've read on forums of people who were refused it so I'm not sure how it works. It's a top up to make sure you have a certain level of income to live on. See here Montant RSA socle 2014 Septembre

Note that you would only be eligible for all of the above if you are 'active', ie working in some way. As has been suggested, you could be an AE. If you are not active then you are only classed as legally living in France if you have sufficient income to be self sufficient. The RSA amounts mentioned in the above link for your family situation is the amount that you need to be considered self sufficient. If you are inactive and not self sufficient then technically you could be deported after three months. In reality, all that would happen is that you would not be eligible for healthcare by the normal routes. Your only access would be via AME, which is the route to cover people living in an 'irregular', ie illegal, situation in France.

Debra186 Sep 18th 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 
I should have said, along with carer's allowance and DLA, which are permanently exportable, jobseekers allowance is exportable to France too, for a limited period.

Im_and_Er Sep 19th 2014 6:33 am

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 
I think the bottom line here is to not even think about moving to France unless you have a guaranteed source of income which will cover all your needs.

Just hoping it will all work itself out is sheer folly and can only lead to disappointment if not complete disaster.

If it were just the two of you then I'd say do what you like but be prepared to suffer the potential consequences but with kids involved, including one with special needs, IMO it would be both selfish and irresponsible.

Debra186 Sep 19th 2014 8:04 am

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 
She didn't ask opinions on whether she should move but asked what benefits she would be entitled to so that she could make her own decision.

mikelincs Sep 19th 2014 8:17 am

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Debra186 (Post 11409931)
I should have said, along with carer's allowance and DLA, which are permanently exportable, jobseekers allowance is exportable to France too, for a limited period.

However with the change from DLA and carers allowance to one single allowance, the government will want to stop the exporting of many of the allowances. I realise the OP wasn't asking whether she should move, just on waht benefits she would be entitled to get, but given the facts, the posters suggesting that moving isn't a really sensible option without a job and good income lined up, and just being helpful. At the end of the day, the OP will make up her own mind, but the sensible option is being pointed out given what we have been told.

EuroTrash Sep 19th 2014 8:22 am

Re: Claiming benefits in France
 

Originally Posted by Debra186 (Post 11410705)
She didn't ask opinions on whether she should move but asked what benefits she would be entitled to so that she could make her own decision.

That is absolutely correct but the OP originally said "for the first few months upon arrival in France, my husband will be working with his brother in law to earn some money, so i was wondering what benefits, if any, we could claim?", and claiming UK benefits abroad without making yourself known to the host country's social security system, may not work.


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