hobbity

I'm living in the Uk and she's in Canada. She's considering moving to France to do her masters, and I'll join her there.

It seems that University fees for international students are as low as a few hundred euro's, and after two years it's possible for students to apply for residence.

We're looking at Universities in the south of France, where cost of living is relatively low. I'm self-employed so can move out there, and I'll apply for residence after 6 months. She's lived in France before, and speaks French which will help.

Has anyone done this, and can comment on the two year student residency rule. And any suggestions on Universities in the South. She's looking at design / arts masters.

Thanks !

cyrian

Hi
Welcome to the french forum.
Cant help with student info but you cannot apply for residency - if you move to France with the intention of staying then you are resident from day one.
If you are working in France without a french business structure then you are "working on the black".
The FISC is much more aggressive than HMRC at finding illegal employment.
France is not as employment friendly as the UK - you have to have the correct documents i.e. qualifications; insurances; company number and VAT number to trade legally.
Have a read at some of the FAQ topics at the top of the french forum.
Once you leave the UK, you are no longer covered by the NHS and you need to consider healthcare also.
You can't just relocate to France as you would to say Yorkshire and just carry on as before.
You need to do lots of research and reading about relocating your busines.
HTH

dmu

+1
Can't help on the Uni/Visa front either, but I'd add URSSAF to the Fisc inspectors, since working on the black means that no Social Contributions are being paid.
@hobbity - I live in the South but haven't noticed that the cost of living is relatively low. Rents in rural areas are lower for sure, but rents in University towns are high. Utilities are the same nationwide and food depends on where you shop.
If you're renting and set up a business structure, you'll need your landlord's written permission to use his/her address as your head office.
You should have both your names on the lease and Utility bills, in order to justify your respective domiciles.
As "partners", you'll be considered as independent individuals by Bureaucracy, which is important if you're intending to buy property. Take a look at the "Partner Status" in the FAQs mentioned by Cyrian.
HTH, but, as said, you need to do a lot of research for yourself before you take the plunge.

hobbity

EuroTrash

Hello Hobbity

I think there may be some confusion with "residency" as in meeting the criteria for being tax residence, and "residency" as in having droit au séjour. As an EU citizen correctly exercising your right of freedom of movement, you are are classed as tax resident from the time you move to France. However, your droit au séjour/right to reside is conditional for the first five years, and you can only apply for a permanent droit au séjour after you've lived here meeting all the conditions for legal residence for five years. I don't know where "apply for residency after 6 months" comes from - if you are inactif you can apply to join the health service after 3 month's legal residence, but in your case you are economically active so you don't have to wait 3 months.

Carrying on from the last point, if you live and work in France and you are self-employed (your business is a personne physique), you need to set up a French business structure as soon as you arrive and start paying social contributions in France on your earned income. If France is where your bum is when you do whatever it is you do to earn income, then that income is classed as French sourced income, regardless of where your customers are.

If on the other hand you have a separate business entity in the UK such as a ltd co (your business is a personne morale) and your company pays you a salary, then have a read of this thread and follow the URSSAF link I own uk company & am moving to france

What you can't do in either case, is simply carry on paying NICs and tax on your earnings in the UK as if you still lived in the UK. You need to inform HMRC that you are no longer resident in the UK, and come out of the UK social security system/personal taxation system and into the French..

As regards social contributions, if you pay over a certain amount of contributions on your business income you won't be charged supplementary cotisations, but if your earnings are below the threshold you would be assessed for supplementary cotisations on any unearned income - rental income, investment income etc.The threshold is quite low - it changes year by year and the actual figure for you would depend on business structure, activity etc but if your turnover is over 10k that would probably be enough.


Hope this helps and good luck with it all, it sounds a great plan.

hobbity

Thanks EuroTrash, thats very comprehensive and thanks for the encouragement! It's a huge step and I've done a lot of research into the various areas and lifestyle, and talked to young French professionals in London, who fortunately I find very engaging, broadminded and interesting.

I think I need to engage a good french accountant and get some advice as unfortunately I'll definitely be taxed in the Uk, it's something I've confirmed with my UK accountant. Without going into detail my income is property based.

Regards the 6 months, it was in relation to what happens post-brexit, from what I (probably mistakenly) read was that if you've been in France a minimum of 6 months I am eligible to stay, and apply for the conditional droit au séjour, and then apply in five years for a permanent droit au séjour.

Just to add here, for the benefit of anyone who may read this. The French plan is in part due to the fact that once you're living together with your non-British partner, under UK visa rules, your partner can apply to live and work in the UK, without having to be married. So, if France doesn't work out for us, we can both move back to the UK in the future without the pressure of a premature marriage.

So main concern at present is obtaining advice in relation to my Canadian girlfriend, and her right to live in France following her two years Masters. And finding a University course.

Thanks for the advice.

cyrian

I suggest that she asks on a USA/Canadian based forum because that may be more pertinent.
There are also facebook groups that you could look at.
HTH

hobbity

That's a good idea, thanks I'll have a look for one.

EuroTrash

Ah yes, if your income is property based it will of course be taxable in the UK and no doubt your accountant has filled you in on how that will work, worldwide income to be declared in France and DTA applied to income that's taxable in the UK etc. Unless you have any unusual circumstances it's relatively simple and the people in French tax offices will know exactly how to deal with it and will be able to advise (most tax offices are friendly and helpful here, they generally give more competent advice than most accountants plus they don't charge for it).

That being the case you'll be classed as economically inactive in France. As an inactif you'll be able to apply to join the French healthcare system after 3 months' legal residence, and cotisations are currently charged at 8% of relevant worldwide "unearned" income above 9k, payable in year N+1 but based on income in year N.

Re your girlfriend, if you're planning the Surinder Singh route to the UK you may need to get your skates on because it seems unlikely this route will survive Brexit, unless you have reason to believe different? As regards her right to remain in France after her studies, I imagine you've read this page https://www.service-public.fr/partic...sdroits/F17319 according to which it is not automatic but is possible depending on circumstances. Unless Canadians have a preferential arrangements, seems possible but I don't know.

hobbity

Thanks EuroTrash you're amazing ! I'll head first to the French tax offices, thats very useful advice. Does being classed as economically inactive create any difficulties with renting an apartment. I understand renting can be a tiresome process, and is there any paperwork that I need to start putting together.

Regards my girlfriend I was planning this route here: https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/partner-spouse, from what I understand it's a new Visa category and there have been some successful applications under it where the partners have moved to the Uk without marrying or intending to marry.

Thanks for the link on International Students, I'd not come across the salary requirements before so that's very useful to know. It places an additional hurdle, but that can be tackled when we reach that point.

Many thanks for your invaluable advice. It's really appreciated.

EuroTrash

I can't help with the visa issue I'm afraid, I have no experience there. I looked at your link and couldn't see how it applies to your situation but I'm sure you've gone into all that.
Re renting, yes that could be a challenge. All I can suggest there is that you don't waste your time with agencies, use sites like leboncoin and look for private rather than professional landlords. Failing that, there's always airbnb or possibly you might be able to come to a long term arrangement on a gite. Probably the best approach is to tap into local knowledge, you could consider booking a room in a hotel or airbnb for a couple of nights so that you are on the spot and then ask around and network like mad. It's possible to find a rental without all the paperwork but you have to be determined and do some lateral thinking. (Speaking as one who tried and failed - I had decided I absolutely didn't want the hassle and the bind of owning property ever again in my life, but I ended up buying a house because it was the easy option.)

hobbity

dmu

It's because tenants are so protected by Law in France that landlords want to be as sure as possible that their potential tenants are able to pay the rent. They want proof of regular income (payslips, Pension Statements, etc...) 3-4 times the rent. If not, and the candidates haven't got a Guarantor, with the same proof, who undertakes to pay the rent if the tenants fail to do so, their application is rejected. Not sure that a French landlord would accept Bank Statements indicating your income from UK property.
As suggested, you may come across a more flexible landlord on LeBonCoin or de Particulier à Particulier (PAP).
I may be wrong, but an AirBnB or gîte rental agreement might not be accepted as official justification of domicile when French Bureaucracy will require it....
All the best!

cyrian

Yes. It can be difficult to evict a tenant. It is illegal to evict a tenant during winter months.
You need to prove income showing that you can cover the rent.
The son of a friend rented an apartment in Paris "on the black". The apartment was below minimum legal floor area and he was not allowed his name on the door or a letterbox.
Be careful of such landlords.
In student areas renting may be more flexible because the landlords/agencies understand that foreign students are in a different position regarding the guarantees required.
HTH

EuroTrash

It literally was for me, believe me.
I had self-employment income in the UK, I was in the process of transferring the same business to France, I had loads of cash in the bank having sold my house in the UK, but I didn't have any of the papers they needed. So no landlord wanted me as a tenant, but sellers had no objection at all to selling to me.

As Cyrian says, it's because tenants are well protected by law, therefore professional landlords take out special insurance to protect themselves against non paying tenants, and obviously the insurance companies are selective in which tenants they will insure. It's not really the landlords being difficult, it's just a case of, they won't consider a tenant that their insurers won't cover.

Having said all that, at the time I didn't know about leboncoin and pap and airbnb, well I don't think that airbnb was even going in those days, so there are more ways round the issue now.