karlerr

Hi there. My first time here and need some info from the people already in France.
Looking to relocate to S. France with my 2 kids and wanted to know if it's wise. Lucky enough we have dual nationality so work permit isn't a problem.
I'm doing just fine in Canada but the cold is killing me and would like to move somewhere warmer preferably in Midi-Pyrénées
Are there any English/bilingual schools for expats? Also, what is my chance as an electrician that can speak intermediate French only?
I've noticed that prices are really good for properties compared with Canada.
thank you!

dmu

Hi, and welcome to the forum!
You would have to get French qualifications to work as an electrician in France, not only because your own (UK or Canadian) might not correspond to French norms, but also for professional insurance and to be able to sign off work.
How old are your children? If they're younger than about 9-10, they could go to Maternelle or Primaire and pick up French in no time and prepare for Collège. For older children who don't speak French, there are some International Schools dotted around "S. France" (a vast area!) - google is your friend!
Good luck with your decision!

karlerr

my kids are 8 and 11, already in French immersion but their accent is terrible (hard to find native French teachers in my area).
Right now we've decided it's time to move and hopefully will be in France by next fall but that depends on selling the house.
I know it's not gonna be a walk in the park but do you guys have any regrets for the move?

dmu

That's not a problem - I, for one, love listening to the French-Canadian accent!
Your 8-year-old would have no problems settling in State Primaire and would soon be fluent at his/her level, but unless your 11-year-old has mastered French Grammatical Analysis and studied some French Culture (literature, history, ...) by then, it would indeed be advisable for him/her to go to an International School. Take a look at the Schooling thread in the "Moving to France FAQs" above, to see what's expected of State Collège pupils. The drawback of International Schools is that the pupils don't integrate into French life nor master the language very quickly.
Before you make a decision, research your work prospects. Most electricians here are self-employed which involves setting up a French business structure based on their professional qualifications. Which brings us back to the differences between French and UK/Canadian norms, and retraining. Without French qualifications, you wouldn't be able to work here....
You said "we" wouldn't need work permits - what's your spouse's line of work? If working from home, a separate business structure would also have to be set up, and several professions, in addition to artisans, also require retraining...
HTH
P.S. The Midi-Pyrénées has become "Occitanie" now. Do you mean around Toulouse, or further East?

karlerr

my wife would come as a scientist (chemistry) so she will be our breadwinner at the beginning.
Not sure how well I'm going to perform as a self employed person but I have to give it a try. How tough is the job market? I'm very good with renovations as I flip houses on a regular basis.

dmu

Hi, will your wife have a job lined up? If not, I don't want to put you off, but high unemployment is hitting all professions at the moment and there'd be stiff competition from French job-seekers in her field who are usually English-speaking. She must improve her French in order to compete with other applicants for any jobs going.
You'd have to cope with French Bureaucracy to set up your own micro-entreprise. There's always a demand for domestic electricians, but for a salaried job in a French company, priority is usually given to qualified French candidates.
With two children to provide for, you must be sure of yourselves!
Sorry to sound like a Cassandra, but I'm being realistic. Fore-warned is fore-armed!
P.S. Although S. France is your choice as it's warmer than Canada, have you considered elsewhere in Europe? OTOH you'd probably still have the problem of different norms.... Or even the South of England? All things being relative as far as the climate's concerned....

cyrian

Hi karlerr
The jobs market is tough in France with high levels of unemployment.
You cannot just set up as a tradesman etc - you need to have an approved business structure.
You need to have the correct qualifications and insurances.
Social charges and taxes are high.
The standards are very different from the UK (don't know about Canada) and you cannot sign-off work without being properly registered.
The planning process is also complicated and you need to have the correct permissions for each function and these permissions need to be displayed at the entrance to the site.
However, I have come across a couple of expats who were working for french builders.
There appears to be a constant stream of construction sites for building flats and if you have the correct skills then you could find employment.
The responsibility for signing-off the work would be the construction company.
Such building really depends on the area.
HTH

south_bound

Good luck with that here when you account for 7% agents fees, another 7% of taxes on each transaction and capital gains tax if not your primary residence, even if you can find a buyer in less than a couple of years! I spent a few years in Canada before coming to France (via the UK) and the system is very different here - there is a specific business structure that allows you to buy, renovate and sell houses and I know of some who do it but definitely not in the style of north American house flipping. I learned enough about electrics in both countries to do some of my own work at home and once you know the rules and have some basic knowledge it is doable, but you would need French qualifications to set up as an artisan or to be employed.as an electrician. That said, if you can find one good salaried job between you to cover basic bills then there are plenty of opportunities once you decide what your niche activity is to be and work within the system. My wife started offering English classes, set up as self employed and is now having to turn away work due to the demand which she didn't even know existed until she started up.

We came with kids aged 8 and 10 and they slotted straight into the local school system, having done some time at a francophone school in Canada so I would't worry about that side of things. It will also help get you integrated into the local scene by meeting other parents, especially if you want to get involved with some volunteering at schools or associations.. The main thing is to understand the differences and embrace them

Tweedpipe

As DMU has already stated, retraining for your own particular skills would be essential to meet French standards. Do not underestimate the job market here, it's precarious to say the least. Research well before taking the plunge.

@DMU: "That's not a problem - I, for one, love listening to the French-Canadian accent!"
Wish I could say the same, a very slight accent.......well ok. Celine Dion singing has long been banned in this household, I cringe on hearing her accent, and zap every time she appears on tv.
Junior TP has lived in Montreal these last 19 years, and still today works hard to conserve his English (and s.w French) accent.
Having said that I'm sure many would cringe on hearing my french accent, as I never could roll my 'R's, and a grin comes over Mme TP's face whenever I attempt to say the word 'fruit', it always seems to come out as 'fuit' as in ca fuit (leak).
And I'm certain that more than a few french were amused recently on hearing me mention the GJ (gilets jaunes), which came out more like gilets jeunes (the young vests!)

dmu

(re accents)
Like plumbers, there's a demand for electricians, in rural France at least - you have to anticipate problems and book well in advance, but if the OP wants his elder child to go to an International School, their choice of locations would be limited and he may even find competition from other pupils' parents who have already gone through the ropes....
A search for électriciens in the Pages Jaunes, entering a few towns and ticking "à proximité", will give an indication of the local workforce.

cyrian

Try "fruits rouges"

Tweedpipe

Knowing my luck that will probably come out as 'leaky red fruits'.

Chatter Static

The Midi-Phyrénées can get to -18 in the winter with ease

That's going to narrow down were you can live, my money would be on commutable distance to Toulouse which will increase the house prices

Personally I think your underestimating the French property market, if you break even here thats a profit. The French don't treat property like the English here a house is a home not a mechanism to make loads of money flipping houses is fine but here the average house sale is about two years.

karlerr

thank you guys for your replies. Didn't realized the differences between N.America and Europe are so big.
Never heard about a property to b eon the market for more than 6 months. They usually sell in just a few weeks in my part of the country.
I'm still determined to make the move, we just can't take it anymore. 7-8 months of winter is too much and here comes January with as low as -40C. We love Canada but winter is our enemy.

EuroTrash

Quite apart from the different attitude to property purchase and ownership, before you consider making an income from buying property, renovating it and selling it on, please look into the legal requirements.
For instance - by law, any structural work you do on a property must be covered by a 10-year workmanship and materials guarantee. That means that if you sell the property within 10 years of completion of any major work, this cover will be presumed to exist, and if you don't have insurance then you'll be responsible for rectifying all faults at your own expense. Artisans take out insurance to cover this risk, but insurers will obviously only insure you for the individual trades that you are suitably qualified and experienced in (roofing/plumbing/carpentry/masonry work etc),
The same applies to working as a roofer, plumber etc - you need to be qualified and correctly registered and insured for each trade you offer. For instance, you can't register as a plumber and do roofing work.
The French system is designed to protect both the consumer and professional artisans, by in effect shutting out non-professionals.
Also, as an artisan you will pay approx 40% of your profit in social taxes. I don't know about Canada but that comes as a big shock to many Brits because social taxes in the UK are very low.
France is very big on social protection and consumer protection. It's one of the factors that make it an expensive place to live.