Helen1964

Good morning.
A couple of friends are contemplating moving to France. They are retired and have Irish passports and currently live outside the EU. They're not entitled to healthcare from the Irish state.

They are trying to work out what their monthly net income would be in France and I'm afraid I'm stumped.
Their total gross monthly income would be 5633 euros.
The income is all from retirement pensions. Nothing else.

I could work out the income tax bit but the prélèvements sociaux are where I come unstuck.

They have good private health insurance to start them off but would like to join French social security in due course.

If anyone can come up with a rough monthly figure - net of tax and social charges, assuming they're insured under the Sécu - I would be most grateful!

Listen Very Carefully

Impossible to say really-A lot is going to depend on where the pensions originate from and what type of pensions they are and what the tax treaty with the relevant country or countries say as to what source of income is taxed where.
So as an example my UK govt pension is taxed in the UK I declare it in France and get an allowance in France against the tax paid in the UK(no social charges) I have just started getting my OAP from the UK This is taxed in France and is subject to social charges but I cannot give you a figure yet as it will be the first year that I have the pension but I suspect that with this arrangement I will be marginally better off than if I stayed in the UK Then of course you have "the parts" and any adjustment for pensions etc.... Also of course any private pensions or non uk govt pensions are taxed in France
So they need to look at the tax treaties and see which country gets first dibs and how they are taxed in that country.
The good news is that as "pensioners" they will probably get their Health care in France free but of course they will need to look at a top up

Helen1964

Thanks. That's what I was afraid of. They can calculate what their net income would be in the UK very easily but they can't work it out for France.

They have private pensions only. They've globetrotted all their lives. Currently resident in Australia but they have no government or state pensions of any kind.

Listen Very Carefully

Private pensions are generally taxed in France( plus CSG) but of course that will depend on the tax treaty with the country where the pension is coming from

Jon-Bxl

I have a similar problem having worked internationally with several pensions, tax treaties and lots of headaches! In my case its not just the tax treatment in my home country, there are also tax considerations in the country of origin of the pension to at be aware of, as some might apply. Check that. Many countries allow one to invest in say, pensions, "tax free/deductible' but it could be deferred tax till you start drawing down.... "It depends" on the specifics. But its understandable that they might want their slice later, for the benefit they gave at the beginning. To help increase the money invested up front......

With respect, if your friends are making this huge move/decision, they should invest in personalised advice from a qualified tax lawyer/accountant. It isn't cheap, but will be focused on their situation. I did it and its worth the investment, even if it means their situation makes, say, a move less attractive. "Better safe than..... "

In fact based on the numbers I'm guessing it might not even cost 1 months pension.

This help will also be invaluable in the annual tax returns.

Its very difficult for anyone on the forum to fully help, and you will rightly get people saying things like "it depends on.... " But you will get great pointers to help you define the parameters for professional advice.

Even so, in my case when I gave the brief to my professional advisor.... I/we missed something. In my case my mutuelle payment shot up hugely, several hundred percent!!

There can always be hidden surprises especially with multiple government departments wanting their slice. But I never regretted paying for the advice.....

Jon



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