OneWildAndPreciousLife

Hi All,

I'm looking into making a move to France before October and researching the possibility of buying an existing business. This business makes most of its money between Spring and Autumn. If I moved in September, I would miss this year's season but I want to get set up before the Brexit cut off date. I would be registering the business as a micro-entrepreneur. My question is when it comes to applying for a CdS how would I stand proving my income reached the threshold? The business makes enough but I wouldn't have earnt it myself until the following year.

Tweedpipe

Sounds like a question for EuroTrash who should be along shortly.

dmu

Hi, is this the same business as mentioned in your other threads? In which case, the status of micro-entrepreneur wouldn't be suitable, as per the replies already given.
I believe that all the advice already given is still valid, and would add that, I may be wrong, but you can't apply for a Carte de Séjour until you've been resident here for 5 years. To become "résident" after xx months, you'd have to prove regular income and healthcare coverage.
As said, ET will hopefully come along soon to give up-to-date official requirements and more!

OneWildAndPreciousLife

Hi DMU,

It wouldn't be the same business as I mentioned before. It's not so much the CdS I'm concerned with, it's proving my right to legal residence after Brexit. Making sure I tick all the boxes whether there is a no deal or a deal. My chief concern at the moment is proving my income levels if we leave the EU. If I buy the business and don't earn anything until next year, if I can prove the business turned over enough to hit the income threshold over the past few years, will that be adequate?

dmu

Sorry, I don't know the answer to that, but I would imagine not.
What status/business structure has the present owner got? (And why in fact is he/she selling?). Whatever, you should get advice from the regional Chambre de Commerce de d'Industrie and/or an Expert-Comptable who will be a mine of information in all administrative/legal/fiscal/social aspects of (setting up and) running a business.

petitefrancaise

The best advice would be to speak to an expert-comptable for sure but here is my tuppence worth based on experience of having a business ( not micro entrepreneur) and this was also 7 years ago so may have changed.

When you have a business, as a director, you must pay yourself at least the SMIC - even if the company makes no money at all, you will be charged charges sociales on this amount. So you have to build this into your business plan. Even if you don't actually draw the money from the company , you will still be paying charges sociales.
Again, again, again - running a business in France is really nothing much like having one in the UK and I would strongly advise getting professional help to:
check over the accounts of the business you are buying - how could you possibly know that all the social charges are paid to the many different organisations that you don't even know about?
Check that there are no legal issues with the business or the premises.
Help you negotiate a new lease on the building if appropriate
check out your business plan to ensure that you have enough funds to get you through the first year? NB a French business plan is NOTHING like the pie in the sky wishful thinking of a UK one.
Make sure you pay what you should on time. Every time.

dmu

Good post!
I had an Sàrl in another life and had to pay 50% of my nominal salary (the minimum for a company manager) to various organisations every month, regardless of what money was actually coming in. If the charges sociales and the like weren't paid by the due date, a fine of 10% was automatically levied. If OH wasn't earning a decent living, I wouldn't have survived during lean months.... To add insult to injury, we had to pay Income Tax on my nominal salary, even if I didn't receive it all. I must admit, though, that, since I've been retired, I'm glad I contributed to the various Pension Funds (including the "Caisse des Cadres" for directors or managers) but it was painful at the time...
The OP hasn't said what sort of business he's thinking of buying, but he should make sure that it would be included within the "micro-entrepreneur" status. Below is a link to the Fédération Nationale site giving a list of all professions legally covered by a micro-entreprise.
HTH
https://www.federation-auto-entrepre...o-entrepreneur

EuroTrash

Buying a micro entreprise doesn't compute. In a micro entreprise the business and you are one entity. So you cannot buy the person who runs the business.
You could for instance buy a premises that is currently being used by a micro entrepreneur, and set up your own business doing the same thing from the same premises, but you would not have bought a business. You would have bought premises. But you would have set up a brand new business with a brand new siret and you would trade under your own name because a micro entreprise has to be registered in your name, you can't register it in a company name because it is not a corporate entity.

However - there is no income level for workers. The set income level you have probably read about is for inactifs. The criterion for self employed persons or business owners is that the business is "genuine and effective" and not on such a small scale as to be regarded as an ancillary or hobby activity. So you need to do your planning on that basis, taking on board the comments made above. The people at the préfecture will use their discretion to assess the potential of the business and how effectively you are running it. They know the nuts and bolts of how businesses work in France.

OneWildAndPreciousLife

Thank you for all your thorough replies. What I would be buying are the contacts they have built up over several years, the software to run the business and the equipment.

I understand the préfecture will assess the potential of the business but if the UK leaves without a deal in October then I would have 6 months to apply to stay in France. What I've read is that each case would be looked at individually but a rough figure of the earnings required is 839€ per month for a couple.

Eurotrash, if the business doesn't make any money until May 2020 and the UK leaves without a deal, is that going to cause me problems?

EuroTrash

Your guess is as good as mine. As said, there is no threshold for workers. But; I would think that applying on the basis of being a worker when you have achieved zero turnover and paid zero cotisations, is obviously not the ideal position to be in. A business that operates all year round would surely be preferable.

petitefrancaise

This is what I was attempting to say in the previous post.
If you have a real business, even if the business makes no profit in the first year. you will be paid by your company as the director (because you have no choice) and this amount will be higher than the minimum for staying in France.
You will have paid income tax as DMU says, you will have paid all your cotisations.
The business is a separate entity to you - unlike the micro-entreprise.
You may be asked to show your business plan to the prefecture and this is why it is imperative to have a properly prepared French style one. Part of the business plan will show how much of your own money you invest in it and you will need to show that you have invested enough to cover all the business outgoings - including your salary and the charges that the business has to pay on top of your salary. If the plan shows this and you can show when you expect to have money coming in then I don't see why it should be a problem. Most businesses struggle to break even in the first year or so, and the system is set up for this. If you have the right business structure.
After the second year, that's when the tax office start really looking at your business and start insisting on the correct ratio of expenses (convention collective) . It's also why so many french businesses fold when they are 3 years old.

OneWildAndPreciousLife

Thank you Eurotrash, Petitefrancaise and DMU. You've given me a lot of information to mull over.