scrubbedexpat056

I wonder if anyone has had any experience in this odd situation. I have the chance of a good deal on a French registered car in UK, but with no CT. The owner left it in the hands of a friend who has the carte grise (though i believe not in his name) when she returned to France in a hurry. I think I understand the possible problems associated with the carte grise, but can anyone advise on whether I can legally drive the car to the Ferry and straight to a garage to get the CT? Can I insure the car in France without a CT? Who would I be in trouble with driving a French car on French insurance in the UK with a lapsed CT? I know it all sounds too much of a bother, but from my car hunting experiences so far it would make sense if I can sort out the details.

EuroTrash

Since no-one else has answered - The rule is that a car has to be road legal in its country of registration. If it is FR reg and under French law it needs a valid CT and it doesn't have one then obviously it's not road legal. The fine if you get caught in France driving a car with a lapsed CT is relatively small. I don't know what the equivalent fine in the UK would be. I doubt if a bobby would bother but if an accident were to happen or you got pulled up for something else I suppose that offence would be tagged on.
French insurers will want a copy of the CG but I don't recall ever being asked for a copy of the CT. But you would need to complete registration promptly as they won't normally give you a sticker for the full year until it has been successfully reregistered in your name.
It's a good idea to put it in joint names with the missus because if you decide later that you want it in joint names you will have to pay another registration fee to change it.

scrubbedexpat056

Thanks Eurotrash, that's pretty much what I guessed. In fact you raise another question. When I buy a car surely all I will get is the old carte grise signing the car over to me. I assume that's enough to insure the car. From what I have seen online I can't even start to register the car in my name until the seller sends me a code de cession. Then I can print off the temporary CG and wait for the original. Is that right?

EuroTrash

They used to want a copy of the cg and IIRC a copy of the certificat de cession. But I don't know what they need now because the last car I bought was pre ANTS.
I do know that a lot of insurers offer a carte grise service free of charge to their customers and maybe they can get the code for you if the seller hasn't already got it. Although clearly you need the CT before you can take advantage of that
Sorry, can't help any more than that.

audio

I am not 100% sure but I think without a CT, any insurance is invalid.

EuroTrash

I don't think so, let's not start another Project Fear.

cyrian

In France, if the owner dies then the spouse does not become the owner of the vehicle which becomes the property of the children - depending on the marriage regime.
Hence it is a good idea to register the vehicle in joint names.

scrubbedexpat056

All good advice, but we have no kids and my wife doesn't drive. Unless in my case if I die she wouldn't be able to get rid of it easily?
Everything I have read states that driving without an MOT or a CT does not invalidate the insurance because it only guarantees the state of the car on that day. However you can get a fine of £100 or 135euro if caught.

EuroTrash

Yes that is exactly why you might want to do it.
Your wife can't sign change of ownership papers for a car that she does not own, ie her name isn't on the carte grise.
From memory I think she would have a short period in which to sell it as long as it hadn't been driven in the interim, but after that, the notaire would have to deal with the change of ownership paperwork and would no doubt make a charge.

scrubbedexpat056

Thanks Eurotrash, I'll register it to both of us.

Novocastrian

I took cyrian's advice on this in 2013, unfortunately doing it meant I had to provide our marriage certificate. This may not be be problem for you but it was for us, since we were resident/citizens of Canada at that time. Luckily one of our sons was sort of house sitting and he sent us a pdf of the certificate.

But more on topic, I believe it's not legal to sell/buy a french matriculated vehicle without a CT valid for at least 6 months.

It sounds like the vendor, not you, has to take that on.

EuroTrash

Yes, the law says that when a car is sold with a CT, there must be at least 18 months left on it, ie the CT was carried out less than 6 months ago. (Or if it didn't pass, it must be sold within the permitted period for rectifying the faults and getting it retested - I don't think this has changed recently?)
The rules here are designed to protect the buyer. It's one of those where not following the rules isn't the same as breaking the rules - it's irregular rather than illegal. The only penalty is that there may be unwanted consequences that the rules were specifically designed to prevent. It's not the kind of rule that is enforced, there are no fines and no official checks on whether the seller had the test done before the sale or whether the buyer got it done immediately after the sale. All that matters is that there's 18 months left on the CT when the change of ownership application is submitted. If the buyer chooses not to take advantage of the protection offered by the law, that's his or her choice.

Re the marriage certificate - I seem to remember that the OP has recently been applying for healthcare etc so presumably is well equipped with all that kind of paperwork!

scrubbedexpat056

From what I've read, prompted by the possibility of illegality, it is as Eurtotrash says, protection for the buyer. If the seller wants to cover themselves from an irate buyer who has bought a car with no CT, but the implication that it is roadworthy, and then it fails the CT, they would need to add 'sold for scrap' or 'for parts' to the carte grise. Apparently some tried to get around the problem by stating 'en etat', though this has no legal meaning.
I think I am now fully aware of what I am doing. I'll risk driving to the ferry and have a pre-booked CT in Dunkirk when I get off.

cyrian

I did not have to provide a marriage certificate - we just provided passports.
It (as always in France) probably depends on which fonctionaire you get at the prefecture.

EuroTrash

You can't sell a car to a private individual for scrap or for parts these days. The only legal way to scrap a car is via a registered vehicle dismantler. So you probably wouldn't want to write that on the carte grise.
Rather than simply write "vendu dans l'état", there are sales contracts circulating on the internet that clued-up sellers download and get the buyer to sign, and apparently these do have legal validity. Or at least that is the advice given on French motoring forums and suchlike.