Builder walked off
 

We have been left completely in the lurch by our (english) builder, who simply walked away with considerable amounts of our money etc. And yes we had multiple devis, references etc.
My questions however do not relate to that, but to the work that was left unfinished.
As I understand it, EdF must approve your electrical circuitry when the supply is first connected. Or is it just the connections to the circuit board etc that they have to approve? If so, is it possible to get approval of that separate from the rest of the wiring- although clearly we would like someone to give the wiring the once-over.
Also does anyone know the situation as far as household insurance is concerned regarding both electrical and plumbing work which presumably now are going to be without an artisanal guarantee?

Many thanks

Re: Builder walked off
 

Oh no! how awful for you. I think you do have to have the electricity signed off on a new house and ideally on an old renovation for insurance purposes. That said we haven't had ours signed off yet.
As regards guarantees; I would guess that you are up the creek; however I would recommend talking to your insurance company to find out the exact situation.

I am really sorry to hear such bad news for you and I sincerely hope things look up soon

Re: Builder walked off
 

First of all what was the "builder" doing?? From what I understand he was doing your electricity and plumbing....??? He shouldn't have been unless he's properly qualified, which I doubt very much. The thing is, is he insured for this kind of work?? Again I doubt it as professional insurance is very expensive and the more trades you have under your belt the more expensive it gets, which is why "Bob the Builder" types are people to avoid.

But anyway, do you have a "devis signé"?? Do you have any "factures d'accomptes/situation"?? Basically what were you quoted and how much have you paid so far? What percentage of work has been done so far and, if I may ask, why did he walk off??

As for your electricity you can get the certificate yourself, and if there is any gas work done its also possible for you to get a Qualigaz certificate. However if there is no "facture" for the work that has been done you'll have to take the responsibility for the work carried out.

In France the people in the building trade have quite a bit of responsibility and it soon gets messy when the insurance / lawyers / jurists / Julien Courbet types get involved and they go to great lengths to protect the client (person having a problem with an artisan). And this is why it's pretty rare in France for a builder to spit his dummy out and just walk off. There are times I would have liked to have just "walked off" a job, but it doesn't matter how much a pain in the rear the client is you have to obey the contract.

To sum up:

If the artisan has not been paid whats called a "facture d'accompte or situation" in French, for the work done he can walk off and come back and finish the job once its been paid.

If there is a Devis signé then both parties must respect the contract.

If you're doing it without a devis signé then you're fooked.

If you need any help or have any questions you can PM me if you wish

Re: Builder walked off
 

We have never paid nor been asked to pay the full amount of any job we have asked someone to do. We paid in stages after we saw the expense sheets and discussed necessary future purchases.

Brits working on the black are far less reliable than French artisans for reasons explained above. In addition would you approve of immigrants to GB relying on their own untrained workforce and excluding the indigenous trained population?

Re: Builder walked off
 

Etoile de Berger,

Can I respectfully suggest you read people's posts before parading your self righteousness?

Le Plumber - thank you. I will PM you.
As you gather, what I am enquiring about is what sign offs we may or may not need. The money he owes us we will pursue through the police and the courts, who I understand are less forgiving than in the UK.

Re: Builder walked off
 

People post in here for mutual information.

May I respectfully suggest that you stop being so egocentric? Next time ask first. Some of us have been here a while.

Good luck with the courts. It wil cost you and without a contact you haven't a prayer. If your work was done on the black you may find it is you who are in jail.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Etoile - trolls like you really are the bane of these forums.

Can you read at all? Would you please re read my post? Where on earth does it even suggest that we had paid "on the black"? Where does it say we don't have a contract? Of course we have a contract. And of course we paid legally to a legal business.

To answer the only actual point in your splenetic ramble, my post was indeed a request for information. if you had bothered to read it.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Now, now...

I'm sure everyone has the best intentions:nod:

By the way, do you feel like naming and shaming said Builder - or at least give us a clue where he's based so he can be avoided?

Re: Builder walked off
 

Derbyflan

Thank you.

I do not know why, but I have never been happy with the naming and shaming bit -never was one for slinging mud in public. (Although I must confess to being sorely tempted with this one!).

But I would of course respond to any request for information.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Cheers!:thumbup:

You have a pm.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Prat.

I don't have to refer soecifically to your wishes?

No wait. Don't answer that.

Expats like you give GB a really bad name.

Legal business? Pull the other one. I have been involved in 8 years of renovation work. Seems to me you was "had" mate.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Lets not turn this thread into an argument ... pretty please ;) There's no need to be so sharp.

The OP has already said So lets leave it at that and get back to the original question which I believe was about the electrical sign off.

Thanks

Re: Builder walked off
 

Damn!

Now I'm going to have to look that one up:frown:

Re: Builder walked off
 

I've PM'd you ;)

Re: Builder walked off
 

Germans.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Notwithstanding the fact that there are very few "legal businesses" set up by British ouvriers, I have to ask the OP why he asked this question to this list.

The obvious thing to do is ask your local EDF office or at the very least your mairie who will do it for you. Maybe his French isn't up to scratch.

While we are on the subject of "not reading", I did mention the need for the EDF to inspect electrical installations last Wednesday in a rather long post to a gentleman who wants to do a renovation in France. I do so detest repeating things.

And yes KO, I do have close German relatives, thanks. Perhaps we cculd stay OT.

My understanding of this list was to disseminate information that could be of use to a range of people, not use it as a personal Citizen's Advice Bureau. The question in the OP was already answered when I posted for the first time. The problem led logically to situations about working on the black, and being shopped is not a pleasant experience. An aquaintance of mine could tell you all about it. He is currently in GB and not able to come back to France.

I have been in France for 11 years , 8 of which were home renovation. There isn't much that happens in home renovation that I haven't experienced and I had no list of English speakers to fall back on. I also have lived in very rural settings, run a small farm, mixed with French shepherds and farmers on an equal footing, spent hours with all kinds of French people, and have been involved in dogs for longer. I have also experienced town life, problems with bills, insurance, legal matters, have encountered a range of French and British people and have travelled all over France. Not to mention doing qualifications in French and reading extensively about French history and modern culture, newspapers and watch and listen to French media. In French.

I have not however met the kind of name calling and defensive rudeness that I have done this afternoon by a Brit. But I am afraid I am not surprised. It is one reason I left the country.

So instead of spending time sharing experience, advice (repetitively) and encouragement, and then being dissed by the OP and childishly ridiculed by his accomplice, I shall leave you all to it. I really don't need this from those who should be able to sort out such basic information for themselves IN FRENCH. I have far more important things to do.

There ought to be a bloody language exam for ALL immigrants to France. Makes life far easier for all concerned.

Spelling OK for you TP? Good.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Etoile.

I speak French, German, Spanish, Italian, English, Gaelic and a bit of Urdu.

Du kannst mi' mal.

Sorry mods but this is just silly.

Re: Builder walked off
 

That, my friend, was all down to your attitude ... nothing more!
You've been asked before, and wont be asked again.

People can post on what topic they want here ... it's not your place to decide on what is and what isnt acceptable.

End of story .... OK? ... Thank you

Re: Builder walked off
 

Blimey!

The reason I came to France - and most others I assumed, is to live a stress-free life.

I take it you're referring to me as the 'accomplice'?

The way I see it is...

This forum has been set-up to help people and share ideas, discuss experiences etc.. Undoubtedly then, the same or similar questions will crop up repeatedly and whilst this happens, members can not and should not be chastised for not finding the information elsewhere by trawling through the thousands of previous posts on the forum. The OP is clearly in a mess. His builder appears to have left him in the lurch (for whatever reason) whilst owing him a rather large amount of money. I would have thought that people like yourself - with your experience - would only be too willing to help. I'm sure we're all very sorry that you do so detest having to repeat yourself so maybe the best course of action is for you not to?

In my opinion, you are completely over reacting and have jumped on your high horse - and now it seems, you've flounced off into the sunset to do all these better things that you have to do.

Well, good luck with that!

Re: Builder walked off
 

No it wasn't a reference to you.

Help is fine. AFAIK I was offering advice around the subject which had already been answered. Do I have to write specifically to the OP and am not allowed to open up the subject? Working on the black is a serious affair here. You never know who is watching and there have been times when French neighbours have shopped such behaviour.

Being called self-righteous for my efforts is not my idea of someone knowing how to behave. It is crass and unnecessary. I don't stand for uppity namecalling. Where I come from if someone doesn't like the answer he either ignores it or dismisses it, not call someone names as a supposed adult.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Hmmm... Let's leave it at that shall we?

Re: Builder walked off
 

Like you calling someone a prat then ........ :confused:

Lets leave it alone. We established that "black" isnt involved, so lets give meaningful positive advice on the subject now :)

Re: Builder walked off
 

Ignoring all the righteous preening, following on from le plumbers point way above, you can start the electrical certification yourself at www.consuel.com which is independent of EDF and then they will check and sign off on your installation. Once you have been signed off you are completely covered with insurance etc.

Now as I understand it, if it's a completely new installation EDF will not connect to your breaker board feed line without the attestation from the Consuel. If however it is a re-wiring you are not obligated to get a consuel but any electrical problems then become the responsibility of the electrician/home owner. Hope it helps.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Cuthbert

Thank you. I have filed that one away. The written stuff looks straightforward enough. As for the technical stuff that doubtless follows, well there is always BE! :)
As it happens, we are already connected. The previous owner (French) had put in a new supply and most of the wiring, which I imagine must have been signed off by EdF as they simply transferred the account into my name. We are planning on putting some new stuff into two as yet unused rooms. So what I wanted was clarity as to where I stand with those minimal alterations that have been made, plus those larger ones that WILL be made, when I talk to the chaps who are coming round to quote.

Re: Builder walked off
 

There is a Le Grand booklet which you can get in places like Castorama which explains exactly what can be on a circuit what trip switch is needed amperage wise etc for different types of installation to meet the French Code of Practice for electrics.;)

Re: Builder walked off
 

Hope this helps.

Re: Builder walked off
 

What a cracking booklet. A bit over my head at times, (a hammer is my preferred tool for most tasks) but I will puzzle away at it. Thank you.

Worth suggesting posting in FAQs perhaps?

Re: Builder walked off
 

Try this, hope it helps. There's usually an unsubscribe from the thread link towards the bottom of the e-mail.

Re: Builder walked off
 

There seems to be no way to get out of this place entirely. I can only unsub from threads. If this is so, it is illegal.

And thanks guys for all your insults. You make being British an embarrassment.

Ask politely? After being insulted by you all from the first post I made in this thread and which seems to be supported by the mods?

YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING!

Re: Builder walked off
 

Contact Sue "Admin" She will be happy to facilitate this for you.

Pardon? The FaQ Section of the site gives all the relevant info.

The ambiguity in your first post second line came across in a mildly insulting fashion.

Not every one that employs British Nationals working in France picks ones working on the black there are plenty of folk here that are Qualified and all Legal like.


Your doing a better job than anyone else here.

As I said your first post came across as mildly rude. And you are continuing to derail the thread even after having posts deleted by Mitzy.

Pot Kettle Black















.

Re: Builder walked off
 

I dont "support" anyone, I just administer the rules, and I have asked three times now for you not to derail this thread. I also pm'd you, but you chose not to reply.

You can easily leave the forums, if that's what you mean, by just not posting here any more. There's nothing "illegal" about this forum.

Any further off topic posts will be removed. If you wish to discuss further then do it by pm. Thank you for your cooperation

Re: Builder walked off
 

EdB,

Look at the bottom of the latest post. There is a link to 'unsubscribe from this thread'.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Hi.
Not sure if you have your problem sorted or not, but if you have a temporery EDF supply fitted to your property you must get the a goverment appointed orgonisation called consuel du caen (for calvados anyway, but im not sure what department you are in) out to inspect any new electrical installation whether it be fitted by yourself or an artisan (registered or not for electrical installations is not relavent to them, that is only relavent if insurance claims are required). They will inspect the work and either sign it off or advise to required modification before they will call again for further inspections. Every time they have to call their fee will increase. Once signed off you then send the certificate to EDF (or the supplier you choose to go with) who will then remove you temporery box and install a permenant supply.
House hold insurance may be a problem, but your insurance company should take over the chasing of the artisan for you whether the work was finished or not if a claim is every required within 10 years for major works problems or 2 years for minor problems. It is always a good start to employ and independent expert to inspect the work undertaken by the artisan to date and give you a writen report (you house insurance company should be able to give you contact details for such an expert) A companies decinal and civil insurance is a legal requirement in France but not all artisans (French, English or any other nationallity) hold the correct insurance, in these casses the only option if a claim is required is to sue the artisan involved which will be started at the tribuneral du commerce in you local city. If the devis has the artisans siret number it will be easy to start this process if required. Hope this helps

Regards Mark

Re: Builder walked off
 

Mark, please contact admin by clicking the link at the bottom of the forum (Contact us). You need to change your screen name, as the one you have used is not acceptable under the posting rules

Give them the new name and they will change it

Re: Builder walked off
 

I don't want to unsubscribe from the thread. I want to unsubscribe from this site.

In good faith I suggested ways NOT to lose a lot of money when dealing with builders. I know from experience that these ways are perfectly acceptable and are the usual practise.

What I got back was an insult, then compounded by our esteemed owner of the Beano avatar who made things worse every time he put his big foot in, then even worse, our local Orange Juice girl supports some infantile ridiculing of a spelling mistake by adding her own infantile ridiculing and insulting me even further.

The Beano boy puts it all out there in public until I suggest he PM's me, and when he does, there isn't anything to say in reply.

And then he bans me for five days so I can't get off the list when I want to.Very clever.

I have over the months offered a fair bit of advice about all sorts of things. I don't need this list...people who want to live in France, don't understand the language and haven't a clue about where they want to live or anything about what happens here, do.

Well good luck to them.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Ahh, lowering yourself to insults, eh .... I'd expect a more intelligent approach from an ex teacher :D

You were banned because you broke the rules and refused to accept that by breaking more rules and ignoring a moderators requests.

If it had escaped your notice, moderators are here to keep the rules, and that's why you were pulled up on the forum.

If you want to unsubscribe then go to contact us link at the bottom and tell admin. We wont remove posts though, and as I said ... the easiest way is to just not come back here if you feel that bad about it. It's a shame that you wish to remove yourself as we value anyone who is here to give good advice. On forums we have to remember that not everyone else's point of view is the same as theirs.

I would pm you, as you keep mentioning, but you ignore the pm's so it's pointless.

Now, yet again, please stop spoiling the thread as any more off topics will be removed immediately

Thanks for your cooperation

Re: Builder walked off
 

I read Bigglesworth's original post and the first response, but haven't come back until today. The posters here are regulars on this forum and I am disappointed how matters have gone. I can only say that on a dog related post elsewhere on this forum Etoile has shared some very good advice and I have thanked her for that.
I recognise rules are rule, but I do hope we can all move forward as this forum is in a class of its own, the quality of advice and comment is exceptional. I would hate to lose that advice from any quarter.

Re: Builder walked off
 

I absolutely agree with you, but unfortunately it wasn't allowed to be left to rest, culminating in a veiled threat towards me in the last post.

Re: Builder walked off
 

Agree! Top notch dogger is Etoile:thumbup: