British bank accounts for expats
 

Following on from the recent article in Connexion about an expat having their Barclaycard withdrawn by their bank, there is an article in the Sunday Times stating that expats could also have their UK bank accounts closed.
It says that this is because the UK and the EU have not been able to reach an agreement on a banking passporting system to allow UK banks to continue to service non-residents.
The banks would need to apply for expensive new licences to operate in the EU.
This, of course, may not happen but any expats who use a UK bank account to receive rent or pension income should give some thought to alternative arrangements should this situation develop.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

we have a thread warning just that in the TIO section as it affects ALL people in EU countries.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

I seem to remember that the EU warned people about this a long time ago.
Does it apply the other way round? What about Brits who own holiday homes in France and have French bank accounts?

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

I assume that it applies to expats without a UK address.
Therefore, if you have a UK address then there would be no problem.
If that is the case then it should apply the other way round.
I hope.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

Hopefully the banks will interpret it that way and leave loopholes, although I suspect that strictly speaking it should be about where a person is resident.
Obviously banks do need to know which country a customer is resident in because it affects things like, how interest is paid and what products you are allowed to purchase or invest I remember being quite surprised, shortly after I'd filled in my first French tax return, to find a message on my UK internet banking account requiring me to confirm, before I could access my account, that I was tax resident in France. They must have picked this information up automatically because I hadn't told them since it didn't affect any of the products I held with them, all I had was a current account.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

I'm with two UK banks and they both got me to confirm my residency some time ago, so I can't provide a UK address if that loophole existed. So far they haven't issued any warnings about closing accounts, but what a nightmare that would be. I guess we'd be forced to transfer funds at a terrible exchange rate to French accounts. I prefer having accounts in both countries, there's a great many practicalities to it. Just one more thing to stress about.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

Just to add that HSBC UK say on their website that their accounts will still remain operable for UK expats living in the EU after Brexit. My other bank say they are considering their options and will provide ample notice in writing if there's a problem.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

Neither has mine (Lloyds), but then my surname is at the end of the alphabet....
If it makes a difference, my current account was converted years ago into an offshore account (on the Isle of Man at the time and now in Andover). Likewise my two daughters' accounts, and they haven't been notified either. They have both been toying with the idea of closing their accounts and transferring their money where it's more useful, so it wouldn't bother them if Lloyds does close them. And in fact I only use mine when I go to the UK, once a year and not at all this year, and I can always use my French CB.
But I can understand all the future administrative issues for expats whose income is paid into a UK account....

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

If the writing was on the wall, you'd have thought more people would have been notified by now. When I moved addresses within France one UK bank account went out of their way to try and forcibly close my account - some manager had put a note that it was to be closed, so it didn't matter who I spoke to or how sympathetic they were, they all told me my account would be closed because I couldn't be in France with a UK bank account (despite I'd had it for years in France prior to my move). One guy on the phone even told me he'd never heard of someone in France with a UK account. I wrote a letter of complaint and they told me the manager was reprimanded and I received financial compensation.

Anyway, I digress. Yes, I think people have lots of practical uses for still having a UK account. I don't use mine very often, but they are useful when I do require them, and as I can't open a new one I'd rather hold onto them. I don't really want to be forced into using current exchange rates to send the money over to France either, although I suspect after Christmas I would probably wish I had! :)

Hopefully your offshore account won't be subject to the same problems.

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I'm off to my bank on Monday to ask about this exact problem. Hoping for the best and planning for the worst, has anyone any suggestions for possible alternative arrangements?

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

Do let us know what they say, Alianco ! See if you can worm the full story out of them.
Transferwise Borderless as an alternative ? https://transferwise.com/gb/borderle...oogle.co.uk%2F
I have TW Borderless accounts in various currencies, what's not to like.
I also still have a joint UK account with a UK resident, I wonder how they'll cope with that! The account hasn't been used for donkey's years but we never closed it, it's registered to his current address on it but to the best of my knowledge the bank has me down as tax resident in France.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

So are EU countries going to be treated differently from other countries across. the world?
Surely there must be thousands of people resident in the US, Asia, etc who have kept their UK bank accounts. I’ve heard no mention of these being closed.

Incidentally, I checked last night and when my building society Nationwide talks about “address” they mean the place where you’re resident for tax purposes. I was thinking perhaps I could just give them a UK address for correspondence but it seems that’s not - or no longer - possible.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

There has been posts on BE about people in Australia having their UK bank accounts closed/suspended. Our UK bank (Halifax) keeps threatening but hasn't done so - yet.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

This is what I have understood but I could be wrong:
If a financial institution wants to offer its services in a different trading area, either there needs to be a comprehensive agreement in place or each bank has to obtain a licence from that jurisdiction.
When the UK was part of the EU, UK banks could operate throughout the EU without any need for licences because it was the same trading area with common financial standards and rules.
This will change at the end of transition.
The UK has announced that it will no longer be bound by EU rules. Throughout the negotiations EU has been asking the UK to provide details of the financial standards it intends to bring in to replace EU rules, but the UK hasn't provided the information requested - basically it has been saying 'Just trust us, surely you don't need us to fill all these forms in', which isn't acceptable to the EU. This has been mentioned several times in Barnier's regular updates on the progress of negotiations, which are published on the EU website. As I recall, one recent report said the UK had been given a final deadline to provide the assurances the EU needed, but the UK had missed the deadline and it's now too late for the EU to process the information and go through all its consultation processes and reach a decision by the end of the year.
I guess UK banks were waiting and hoping that the government would sort out a comprehensive agreement with the EU to avoid each individual institution having to apply for a licence, and now that there appears to be little chance of that, they're having to consider their position.

I imagine that UK banks that operate in non EU countries are individually licenced by those countries to provide services there, and Brexit won't affect that. But if they have been allowed to provide services there by virtue of being covered by EU financial standards, then that would be affected.

What I don't know is whether the UK is going to reciprocate by putting barriers up to EU financial servicing UK residents. It would be illogical because the UK has been happy with EU financial standards up to now, and I can't imagine that the UK is actually going to set higher standards. But I haven't seen anything about it.

I don't suppose the HSBC revelations are giving the EU much confidence in the UK, either.

Edit - at first glance this looks relevant https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info...0062020_en.pdf although it's not the report I was thinking of, that I read before.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

That's an interesting point. We're with Nationwide as well and we're tax residents in UK. They happily allowed us to change our UK registered address to Carcassonne, maybe we could change it back. Doubtful, but I'll ask.

Eurotrash, your summary of the possible causes of these banking problems sounds plausible. The thing that confuses me is that we expats are not asking our banks to work in a different jurisdiction for which it has no financial 'passport', we're just asking it to handle our sterling accounts solely for UK transactions. The only difference is the registered address of the account. I always assumed that was about fraud prevention rather than financial jurisdiction. Having said that, three abandoned businesses in my professional life are testament to my lack of financial acumen.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

Well I suspect that in fact the registered address of the client is what makes all the difference. Like VAT - what matters is where the client is resident. Eg if you are a business based France providing an online or mail order service, then how you deal with VAT depends on the address you put on the invoice. Even if you mail the item to an address in your own country rather than in the client's country, or to a different country altogether, it's the client's address that determines what VAT is payable. If your client is in the US then you're trading or providing a service to the US; if your client lives in the EU then you're trading or providing a service to the EU. I think. So the issue here would be that if you live in the EU the bank may quiite simply not be entitled to provide a service to you, ie provide you with a bank account.

From the link I gave, it seems that the issue is basically the same as all the fuss last week about the EU blocking trade between GB and NI - it's not that the EU wants to stop food being transported between GB/NI, or to stop UK banks operating in the EU, it's that the EU is not unreasonably asking the UK for assurances on food standards and financial standards before it gives the green light, and the UK won't provide those assurances. It keeps saying that it's a sovereign nation and it can set whatever rules it likes. And apparently it's so sovereign that doesn't see why it should tell anyone what those rules will be.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

dmu, have you seen this article?

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

That's not good.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

For what it's worth I went into my Nationwide today and short answer, no idea, wait for the bank to contact us.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

Exactly so. I maybe didn't explain it very well, what I was meaning to get at was that it seems that it's not a blanket pull-out across the board, each bank is handling it differently.

dmu said that she was with Lloyds, as am I. Neither France nor Belgium are on "the list". One of our members living in the Netherlands (which is on "the list") received notification of closure a couple of weeks ago.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

This answers my question about EU banks operating in the UK
https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...arclays-brexit
"while the UK has legislated so that EU banks can continue to provide services for customers in Britain, the EU has not done the same."

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

I've just discovered that those of us with a Britline euro account can open a separate sterling account for a minimum of 1000 sterling to open. The downsides are that you don't get a debit card or cheque book and that all dealings between the bank and a UK bank, both ways, incur a fee of 20.85 euro. Far from ideal, but could be necessary, at least until something better comes up. It may well simply be a conveniently packaged service that allows what any french bank would offer ie. accepting or sending money in sterling in exchange for a fee.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

I just looked up Transferwise as mentioned by EuroTrash. At a glance their rates for transferring money seem much cheaper than Britline.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

I was thinking of using Transferwise if necessary. It's odd because the .com website gets good ratings on Trustpilot but the UK version of the same site gets terrible trustpilot reviews. I'm also considering WorldFirst - they seem to have a good reputation, but it's all quite new to me, so I will have to see.
I'm hoping my UK bank stays open as I have a direct debit set up to pay my NI contributions, so that would cause me a headache trying to find an alternative form of payment each month. My other bank which looks like it will definitely stay open, is just a saver account, so no possibility to set up direct debits.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

I don’t have a Transferwise borderless account but have used them many times to do transfers. They were brilliant.

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I'm sure they're good, but those who use them regularly had complained that they weren't what they used to be, and customer service has significantly declined. I guess they're regulated by the FCA, so they must be pretty trustworthy; I did read about people having funds held up for weeks at a time though - not good if the money is needed in a hurry, but I doubt it happens often.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

My husband years ago was told to close his account in UK as he no longer had a UK address. He had a German address at the time. Bank was Barclays. Just recently he could not sell shares as he is based in Asia. He needed a broker. A UK broker refused to open an account as my husband wasn't resident in UK. We found a way round the problem thanks to a forum member. Banking is getting a bit more bureaucratic.

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Not sure what "the UK version of the same site" means. When I log on, everything comes up in French but I manage all my accounts (£, € and £) from the same place, you don't log in to different sites for your UK account, your French account etc.
I've had Borderless accounts for years and have had one or two queries along the way (everything from What's happened with this transaction? to Do I need to declare all my accounts separately to the fisc on my tax return, and if so, how do I do it?) and I've always had an extremely prompt, helpful and civil reply from customer services, even when it's turned out I've been asking a daft question. On the last occasion they'd changed the way you contact them and I had trouble finding the details; I told them this in the email and the person apologised and said they would pass my comment on to their website developers. I used to use Transferwise mainly for moving money, but after returning to the UK last year I started using them as my main euro business account, because I was still freelancing from the UK for my French clients and I didn't dare have payments made into my French account in case the fisc thought I was working in France on the black! No problems, and there are advantages such as you get an automatic email each time a payment goes into your acccount, so it saves you having to keep logging on to see if so-and-so has paid yet. I also have a bank card that I can use for online transactions and to withdraw cash.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

Hi EuroTrash. Yes, it redirects to the French one for me too, but there exists the name of the company followed by .uk and they have their own trustpilot review page (same site, just the UK version) where it gets 1.5/5 stars. Their main .com site does considerably better in the reviews. I'm not sure why this discrepancy exists.
For my own needs I would only have to transfer a lump sum as a one off really. Actually I'd probably do a small sum first to make sure it went smoothly and then come back to do the rest.
I'm hoping it won't be necessary; guess I'll have to wait and see.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

If you just want to transfer money, you probably don't need to set up Borderless accounts, I think you can do currency transfers without. But for anyone who thinks they are about to lose their UK bank account, they might want to consider setting up a TW Borderless account to switch over any direct debits etc.

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Good to know the option exists, should I need it for continuing NI contributions.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

This appeared on UK in Austria:

Latest information for British nationals in Austria with regards to media coverage about some UK banks’ decision to close accounts belonging to EU/EEA residents https://facebook.com/ukinaustria/po

I assume this applies to all countries.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

The Isle of Man falls under different financial jurisdiction so I very much doubt if you account is affected. I think it is mainly UK based bank accounts.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

However the borderless account does not fall under any Government backed financial compensation scheme. After having a bank account on the Isle of Man in 2008, from personal experience I know this can cause some issues.

Citibank moved to Dublin last year so I'm hoping they keep sterling accounts. They have the option of EU,GBP and USD accounts. Might be an option for some people.

Re: British bank accounts for expats
 

Isle of Man banks applied 35% tax at source when EU introduced it if your residence address was in an EU country. ASFAIK IoM is EU. Channel Islands (Guernsey..) have a special deal. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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I wrote to Nationwide on 15th September through my account and didn't notice that they had replied. They said they were unaware of the situation. That's a bit worrying in itself.

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Well that's just it, isn't it. Everybody is unaware of what the situation will be come Dec 31st because HMG is still playing silly buggers. UK banks don't know if they'll be able to operate in the UK without a licence, UK truckers don't know if they'll be able to operate in the UK without a licence or whether they'll be able to get one if they need one, how is anyone supposed to prepare when they don't know what they're preparing for. But the government seems determined to hold out until the last minute because it thinks brinksmanship is clever, so what can you do.

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To be fair the EU is doing exactly the same thing.
Macron promised French fishermen that they would not lose out after Brexit and has instructed Barnier accordingly.
The EU won't move forward unless the UK agrees to follow EU fisheries policy and EU state subsidy rules - even although France and Germany subsidise their respective industries more than the UK.
It is unfair to criticise one lot of Bas****s over the other.
In the meantime we are stuck in the middle.

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We've only got current accounts which don't give interest, so not affected by tax.
Off topic, the following link gives a lot of heretofore unknown info about the IoM!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man

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Yes point taken.
But ffishing, I haven't kept up with the negotiations on that, in fact I don't think they have all been made public, there have been various proposals and counter proposals but this is a fairly recent development https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN26632H and the situation does to be slowly evolving. It's not just French interests at stake, it's also the Netherlands, so I think it's a bit of an oversimplification to say "Macron has instructed Barnier".. But, fishing is just one small area of trade - fishermen, fish processers, the fish supply chain and people who like to eat fish.
As for state subsidy rules, I thought the problem was not so much that the EU insists on the UK following EU rules, but it wants to know what the UK's policy on state subsidies is going to be, so that it can decide whether or not that policy is acceptable to the EU. But the UK is refusing to commit itself.

But as you say we are stuck in the middle and the effects of not reaching an agreement on financial passporting and the movement of goods risk bringing wide disruption, not just to the transport sector and the banking sector.