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Anti-Covid vaccinations

Anti-Covid vaccinations

Old Jan 23rd 2021, 11:56 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by EuroTrash
I think your figures may be out of date.
As of today the UK's official figures give total 95,981 deaths and for the last week and a bit it's been averaging over 1 000 new deaths per day, so at this rate it'll soon pass the 100,000 mark.
Over the same period France was recording fewer than 500 deaths per day.
I don't know what maths lead to the conclusion that 500 deaths a day will catch up on 1 000 deaths or that well under 500 a day versus well over 1 000 a day (last week's figures) is only 1 000 a week different.


Figures are just figures but if they're quoted at all, they should be quoted correctly. When the figures are rightt, then they can be twisted into damned lies and statistics - but they need to be right first, otherwise the argument falls flat on its face.


Absolutely nothing. But there's plenty wrong with people being awarded tenders and not coming up with the goods, which is what is happening.
There is also something wrong with the government refusing to disclose where millions of pounds of public money has gone, which is also what's happening. A number of large contracts have been awarded and the government is legally obliged to declare who they've been awarded to but it's refusing. A government that won't be transparent and won't allow scrutiny is inviting people to doubt its integrity.


Here we go again... do stop trying to make it personal, because I won't bite. Reasonable discussions should be based on facts and objective reasoning. Personal opinions and preferences and likes and dislikes shouldn't come into it. If I wanted to attack you albeit in a sly way, KJMW, believe me you'd know about it and (being the sensitive soul you are) you would react very badly, and you would be quite justified because I would have been out of order. So I don't, but you don't know how hard I am having to bite my lip here. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I'm just trying to stay polite and civil.

If you insist on getting personal, please take it outside..
The figures are quoted from the European Centre for disease control and have been quoted correctly. Should their figures be wrong, which I doubt, then take it up with them. You are right that figures and statistics can be presented to suit any argument! Imply what you like but I would prefer that you talk straight. As for the tenders: You are saying tenders have been accepted but they haven't come up with the goods. Presumably what you mean is they have been paid but have not come up with the goods, who are these people? If the government is legally bound but refuses to declare something I feel sure the courts would be involved and as far as I'm aware that isn't the case.

Don't bite your tongue I don't like innuendo and I certainly don't like sly digs. You have something to say I certainly won't have a problem with it, but make it right!
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:08 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by KJMW
The figures are quoted from the European Centre for disease control and have been quoted correctly. Should their figures be wrong, which I doubt, then take it up with them. You are right that figures and statistics can be presented to suit any argument! Imply what you like but I would prefer that you talk straight. As for the tenders: You are saying tenders have been accepted but they haven't come up with the goods. Presumably what you mean is they have been paid but have not come up with the goods, who are these people? If the government is legally bound but refuses to declare something I feel sure the courts would be involved and as far as I'm aware that isn't the case.

Don't bite your tongue I don't like innuendo and I certainly don't like sly digs. You have something to say I certainly won't have a problem with it, but make it right!
Please direct us to the page from the European Centre for disease where the UK figures appear ? A link will do.

Here is just 1 example of a court case against the Government concerning their non compliance to the law :

https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/13239...id-19-spending

There are other examples but I'm sure you know how to work Google.

And btw this is not the "Take it outside" bit where one can express oneself a bit more freely, here one has to bite ones tongue and stay within the rules.

hth
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:20 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by KJMW
The figures are quoted from the European Centre for disease control and have been quoted correctly. Should their figures be wrong, which I doubt, then take it up with them. You are right that figures and statistics can be presented to suit any argument! Imply what you like but I would prefer that you talk straight. As for the tenders: You are saying tenders have been accepted but they haven't come up with the goods. Presumably what you mean is they have been paid but have not come up with the goods, who are these people? If the government is legally bound but refuses to declare something I feel sure the courts would be involved and as far as I'm aware that isn't the case.

Don't bite your tongue I don't like innuendo and I certainly don't like sly digs. You have something to say I certainly won't have a problem with it, but make it right!
What was the date of your figures? ECDC do not give figures for UK now as they are out of the EU. Perhaps you can post a link?

From worldometer, 7 day average for UK is 1241 / day - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

For France this is 381 / day - https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/france/

At least one relative in the UK has received the vaccine since they posted their experience to a site for the blind / partially sighted. Other relatives, even in the 80+ age group are still waiting.
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:23 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

This is a contentious subject which is bound to invite differing points of view so I am asking you all to keep it friendly and not allow the thread to become a battle ground or it will have to be closed which would be a shame.

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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:26 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by Annetje
Please direct us to the page from the European Centre for disease where the UK figures appear ? A link will do.

Here is just 1 example of a court case against the Government concerning their non compliance to the law :

https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/13239...id-19-spending

There are other examples but I'm sure you know how to work Google.

And btw this is not the "Take it outside" bit where one can express oneself a bit more freely, here one has to bite ones tongue and stay within the rules.

hth
Ah, Maugham again. The baseball bat wielding Fox killer of left wing tendencies!! Well it is a judicial review and the Government have denied any wrongdoing. Not quite as implied that the government has been taken to court and proven to be in the wrong. You can, should you wish to, express yourself quite freely to me. As I have said sly digs and innuendo I don't like. As for the European Centre for disease control I feel sure with your expertise and Google you can find it without any assistance from me.
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:33 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by KJMW
Ah, Maugham again. The baseball bat wielding Fox killer of left wing tendencies!! Well it is a judicial review and the Government have denied any wrongdoing. Not quite as implied that the government has been taken to court and proven to be in the wrong. You can, should you wish to, express yourself quite freely to me. As I have said sly digs and innuendo I don't like. As for the European Centre for disease control I feel sure with your expertise and Google you can find it without any assistance from me.
Call me surprised you don't like Maugham, someone who comes up for the rights of the country. Never mind.

As for your figures, I can not find any side that agrees with you so can you please inform us where your figures come from ? A link will do.
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:39 pm
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by Annetje
Call me surprised you don't like Maugham, someone who comes up for the rights of the country. Never mind.

As for your figures, I can not find any side that agrees with you so can you please inform us where your figures come from ? A link will do.
Yes Maugham, How do you know I don't like him? As for the link I can only say go into the ECDC site. The graph I took my figures from are in there somewhere.
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:42 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by KJMW
Yes Maugham, How do you know I don't like him? As for the link I can only say go into the ECDC site. The graph I took my figures from are in there somewhere.
No link then ... shame.
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:50 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

I just had a quick look at the European Centre for Disease Control's stats and as far as I could see, they only have figures for weeks 1 & 2 of 2021, so they're a week out of date. At least, that's what is on their current download and it's roughly the same as the figures KJMW quoted so I guess that's probably what he was looking at.

The British Medical Association became concerned over contracts being awarded inappropriately last September https://www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opin...vate-providers
HMG was again criticised by the watchdog in November https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4474
It goes on and on.

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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:52 pm
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
What was the date of your figures? ECDC do not give figures for UK now as they are out of the EU. Perhaps you can post a link?

From worldometer, 7 day average for UK is 1241 / day - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

For France this is 381 / day - https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/france/

At least one relative in the UK has received the vaccine since they posted their experience to a site for the blind / partially sighted. Other relatives, even in the 80+ age group are still waiting.
I would gladly give you a link but the graph I read the figures from I can't find. It was on the ECDC site and that is all I can say I'm afraid. I did look at your link and yes, for this week it was roughly half of the figure quoted on the EHCDC 3325 deaths.
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:54 pm
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by EuroTrash
I just had a quick look at the European Centre for Disease Control's stats and as far as I could see, they only have figures for weeks 1 & 2 of 2021, so they're a week out of date. At least, that's what is on their current download and it's roughly the same as the figures KJMW quoted so I guess that's probably what he was looking at.

The British Medical Association became concerned over contracts being awarded inappropriately last September https://www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opin...vate-providers
HMG was again criticised by the watchdog in November https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4474
It goes on and on.
Thank you for that.You didn't have to post it. I appreciate it.
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by KJMW
Thank you for that.You didn't have to post it. I appreciate it.
You're welcome
I don't have to post this link either but I will anyway because in this particular case the multi millions of squid didn't even purchase anything, they were given to a go-between who didn't go between.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54974373
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 1:30 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by EuroTrash
You're welcome
I don't have to post this link either but I will anyway because in this particular case the multi millions of squid didn't even purchase anything, they were given to a go-between who didn't go between.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54974373
At the risk of——! This character was paid millions but he wasn't paid to supply anything. Yes , quite obviously the amount is ridiculous and may result in legal consequences but I think it is necessary not to confuse things. He wasn't paid to supply anything (materials) and that was one of the causes of friction between our posts.
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 2:06 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations

Originally Posted by KJMW
At the risk of——! This character was paid millions but he wasn't paid to supply anything. Yes , quite obviously the amount is ridiculous and may result in legal consequences but I think it is necessary not to confuse things. He wasn't paid to supply anything (materials) and that was one of the causes of friction between our posts.
But he was paid to supply a service, and he didn't supply it.
The phrase you used and I responded to was "come up with the goods", which isn't normally taken as only applying to goods in the literal sense of materials.

"come up with the goods

Definition of come up with the goods
chiefly British, informal

: to produce the desired or promised results : to do what is wanted or expected
We knew we could count on him to come up with the goods."


This guy was awarded a dodgy contract out of taxpayers' money to deliver a service and he didn't deliver the service, he didn't do what was wanted or expected, he didn't produce the desired or promised results, he didn't come up with the goods. I don't really see any confusion.
And the result was that the materials that he was supposed to procure, ie PPE that was urgently needed, was not forthcoming.

Last edited by EuroTrash; Jan 23rd 2021 at 2:08 pm.
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 3:21 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Anti-Covid vaccinations




The topic is the rolling out of the anti covid vaccinations not about money and who gained financially. Anyone who continues with the side discussion will be taking a little holiday.

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