advice please!
 

Hello all,
Glad I found this forum.
I'm looking to purchase a renovation project/barn this year.I'm not sure of region yet,just started looking around.I am really hoping for any useful advice or comments on pro's and con's,pitfalls or if someone knows of a bargain property!
Many Thanks,

Re: advice please!
 

Wow! Welcome to the forum. Broad question. I think you'll need a bit more direction than you have at the moment. It's a huge country with lots on offer, but other than sticking a pin in a map and taking your chance, I think you need to think about perhaps, climate, landscape, accessibility to the coast, airports etc. Also, how good is your French? I know everyone on here says it over and over again, because it's important. The better your French is, the better your experience will be. Use this planning time to seriously up the ante regarding the language, (unless you have a decent standard already of course). Even so, always room for improvement.

Do lots and lots of research. The internet is wonderful, but trust me it doesn't have all the answers. Are you thinking of coming over for holidays etc. in the interim?

Someone much more knowledgeable will be along any minute, with plenty of advice.

Other than that, I wish you luck with your fabulous adventure. :fingerscrossed:

Re: advice please!
 

Thank you very much some sound advice there,I intend to come over in a few months and possibly view some places then.
I am open to region and would be interested to have peoples views on where is popular.I would prefer a warmer climate(good for my bones!),proximity to an airport would be a bonus for any visitors coming over.
I will brush up on my french.
Thanks again.

Re: advice please!
 

Hi, I moved to the North Dordogne a year ago We spent a great deal of time looking for a 'bargain' barn/ renovation project, visiting many depts from Normandy to Bordeaux. In all it took four years!! In the end, although we found many 'bargains', we opted for building our own house. We bought land ( it's much cheaper than in the UK) with CU and are now in the process of our build. So far we have finished (and living) in the Gite and next month we start our house. We have met a number of expats who have or are renovating and all have said it's an endless "money pit" or thay are fed up with "drafts" and heating costs. It's a personal choice, but I thought you might like to explore the possiblity of a 'new build'. By the way we have a timber frame gite (4 bed 4 bathroom) and it has cost (so far) less than £50,000 plus ALL services ie Electric, plumbing, fosse etc. :D

Re: advice please!
 

Thankyou,that is good information.

Re: advice please!
 

Oh I forgot, the quote is without the land... I note prices have increased since our purchase but still much much cheaper than Uk. We bought just under 3 acres, have a look at www.whereonearthgroup.com Click for sale, pick France and then which ever dept you're interested in then browse. We bought ours through an immobilier but have since found this site which gives you some idea on price.
Bonne Chance:thumbsup:

Re: advice please!
 

Welcome to the Forum.;)

Re: advice please!
 

We have done 2 complete renovations in deep SW France. Lots to tell.

We are off for a walk today but will get back to you when I have time, probably this afternoon.

Re: advice please!
 

Thank you,I wondered if there was anymore comments to suppoirt or challenge the post Choo-000 made,be interested to hear other experiences that tell it as it is,
Regards,

Re: advice please!
 

I can speak for both sides. On arrival on France we decided to build our own house. It is true that in the areas that you will be looking in Land is cheaper... it isn't in the area near Toulouse; I am also surprised at the cost of the gite she has had built but again probably more possible out in the sticks.

For us the cheap house build didnt work out; costs spiralled as things were added that we hadnt expected; just to transport soil cost around 20,000 euros! Then hubby lost his job and we ended up having to sell... at a loss!

We moved and decided to go with what we know this time... a renovation. I agree that they are not cheap; but at least if circumstances change you can live in it as a wreck if it is habitable. It does cost a bit more to renovate here in France( at least in our region) but a bit of searching around, listening to recommendations and being clear with the chosen workmen as to your exact budget from which you cannot budge has given us good pêople at a fairly reason able price.

Overall we would renovate as there is less money as there is less up front; however each tot heir own and you would need to research your area to decide which is best for you:)

Re: advice please!
 

OK Here goes (after three hours' stressing with SFR..another facet of living in France...comms here are like trying to run the Cern Supercollider on string).

Prices for property vary according to the usual. Quaint touristy towns are more expensive than somewhere in the middle of nowhere. And in France that can be miles from anywhere. But it suits some.

There are fewer places needing modernising than there used to be. French owners are waiting like octopii in crevices for a Brit to wander by. Offer him half the asking price and work upwards. Find out EVERYTHING you can about the place first including prices near the property.

Look for somewhere up high or on the flat. It can rain like Thailand in parts of France and often the drainage is non-existent.

Check on sanitary arrangements. Our first place in 1996 had literally a channel and a hole in the ground. Check on modern legal requirements AND THOSE IN THE PIPELINE (sorry for pun) which vary.

Check roof and walls. Some cracks go all the way through buildings. Roofs can be done but if in a poor state, check supporting beams which may have rotted. It will cost a fortune to fix them.

Do not be alarmed by woodworm in oak beams. They cannot get through the heartwood where the strength is but there is woodworm in almost all beams in France. Come to love your insects. You will be calling your spiders names soon enough.

HOWEVER
Check for termites, a spreading problem in France. Have a survey done for them. They CAN chew through any wood.

Check chimneys for structural problems. We had one blow out when we used it and it shot cement across to the other side of the room. You may well be using wood to heat since other French fuel is expensive.

Unless you have played premiership football or won the lottery, do not fall into the trap of large open spaces in rooms. You will always be cold. Do not think you can put radiators in every room and use them like you do in GB. They will bankrupt you. Check out different prices for propane gas, butane, electricity and wood.

A personal hint. We laid smooth tile floors all through one house and they always looked good but the tiles in this house, already done, had a kind of pock-marked indented surface. They NEVER look clean and I hate them.

Find out where your local builders' merchant is. You will be there A LOT so make sure it isn't far away.

Make some friends who can use tools. You will be sharing and exchanging help for a long time.

Be aware that unless you are experienced, it will all take you three times longer than you think. If you don't know French plaster be prepared to settle for a rustic look on the walls. Get to know French electrical installation...it is different. You have to have it checked by an EDF man to put a seal on the box and for your insurance to cover it.

BUY A BIG TRAILER. or two.

Locality? France's climate stretches from British to Spanish. There are dry spots and wet spots. Microclimates and Mistrals. Do you want flat or mountains? (sea is expensive. See above.) Close to a town or with some land? (if the latter I can help you with agricultural and EU subsidy matters.) Near other Brits or as far away as possible?

Do a year's intensive French lessons and a year's research. Spend your holidays here. Ask people why they chose that area and whether it still suits them.
YOU WILL HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK BASIC FRENCH. or rely on someone who does. You will be buying all kinds of sand, cement, screws, nails, wood, gravel, plaster, wood preservative for flooring and beams, polyeurathane varnish, tiles, sinks, plumbing, electrical materials, kitchen equipment and things you have never heard of.

You will fall out seriously with the wife and it may end in divorce. I am only half joking as it happens more often than you think. You will be very hot in summer and very wet at other times, usually very dirty and always very tired. Your Fench neighbours will think you are half mad.

If you get through all that you will have something that is YOURS. Then it is very likely that you have discovered you are in the wrong place and sell it, buy another wreck and start all over again.

Remember. You have been warned ;) :fingerscrossed:

Re: advice please!
 

Thank you very much for taking the time to put all that down,I see I have a long road ahead.
I would prefer rural/semi rural and no I'm not trying to escape british neighbours!
I've contacted a couple of estate agents so will await responses.
Again,many thanks

Re: advice please!
 

Beware, the more rural, the cheaper but also the less english around, the less help, the artisans will try it on because they know you are wet behind the ears on french laws and costs. They may even charge you far more when they know you are english!! you can't buy the normal plaster in france that you can get at any builders merchants in the uk. they use this white powder stuff-- horrible. The chimney has to have a stainless steel liner in it or the insurance wont cover you if theres a fire . What else to tell you? Check the quote and make sure that they do a complete job and that they don't just do the building work and leave all the bare wires hanging for you to get the electrician in to do that side. Even if you have got a 5yr old in the house!! ready to grab an end. Artisans stop work for two months in the summer and you cant get anyone to do anything until september. If they can start straight away then beware cos good artisans usually have a waiting list. On the area you choose- make sure you can get to an airport easily or a ferry port because the long drive eventually does your head in. If you own a gite, watch out for the tax office who will obviously tax you on your earnings in france. Also, when we bought our place in saone et loire in 2005, we were told they dont do surveys on the property , if its been standing 100 years then its not going anyway now. If you want a pool then its cheaper to have one above ground otherwise you pay more taxes on the in ground type. We were also told that if you have land and the farmer asks if he can put his animals on the land to graze etc then he has the right to keep them on there for 9 years. As a rule you do a favour for a favour with neighbours, we gave our farmer neighbour all the old animal fencing etc because we didnt want them, he was happy to come and pull out our tree that fell into the river from our bank. Also he was happy to drain the septic tank to spread over his field. Be aware of the law regarding buying a property and then possibly keeping it for , i think 9 years or pay(? is it 16% ) back on the profit you made. The weather is hot summers and very cold winters, depending on how far down you are in france. We needed to get all mosquito nets on all the windows. By the way the windows in france open in the way not like in the uk. They do have the added advantage of having shutters on the doors and windows- we've now got all electric ones that are a must for when you are away from home. If you can do it yourself then there are builders merchants and shops called Brico depot which is cheap and handy. It took us a long time to find all these shops. Our last lot of upvc windows with elec shutters built in were actually bought from Brico depot and they are actually really good and cheap. Get the tilt and turn ones cos it gets hot at night and you feel safer if you don't want to sleep with the window wide open!! On hindsite i wish we hadn't bought a place there even though we did have some lovely times. Other than that i wish we'd bought on the west coast around Pau. International school there and hotter place,plus easy route for the ferries. Last but not least, i survived using Amazon, and make sure you stock up to the roof with english teabags and all your favourite foods. Food shopping is more expensive in france too.

Re: advice please!
 

By the way choo 000 is so right... renovating is a money pit, absolutely endless... It takes forever to get things , they are not the same quality as in the uk, we thought we were back in the 70s and the 80s when we were looking for bathroom suites at first. I found a bath i liked--7,000 euros , i saw the same one in the uk shop the bathroom store for £250. They told me no,no ,no madam its a good make . They seem to charge a fortune for something different there, that the shops have sold in the uk for ages!! Travertine tiling seems to cost a fortune in france whereas in the uk it's a quarter of the price and you dont have to order it in specially. We paid 61 euros a square metre.

Re: advice please!
 

Not wishing to be controversial or anything, but if that sort of stuff was posted on some other parts of this site (e.g. Canada) you'd be torn to shreds in a day.

Just saying.

Re: advice please!
 

I certainly don't wish to offend anyone , i just hope that by bringing stuff to people's attention they will hopefully not make the same mistakes and therefore enjoy their time in france.

Re: advice please!
 

Yeah I've seen South Park, I know how violent those Canadians can be!!:rofl:

'Glad to be home' It's your opinion, in my opinion, it didn't offend me! But just to add where we live in France you're more likely to be ripped off by the English!!
Best advice is to do your homework and search, find out the best shops/deals/ before you do ANYTHING!
By the way Timber and insulation ( in my experience ) is cheaper here!

Re: advice please!
 

Thanks for all the advice and information,much appreciated.:)

Re: advice please!
 

Not sure I'd agree with the point re Bathroom suites (although the French/English styles are completely different) as good selection and prices are available in the large Brico's.
I would fully endorse the point on Travertine tiles though.:nod:

Re: advice please!
 

Hi Choo 000 , i congratulate you on the idea of building your own house. Its sad that some brits find themselves in a bad financial situation and have to spoil it all by ripping innocent people off. Is it easier to get planning permission for building your own house in france than it is in uk? We can't find a house to buy over here , maybe cos we have been spoilt by what we have in france but we have thought about building a place but a. cant find the right land and b. don't know if we could stomach another building site/renovation. It took us ages to find the right shops when we first arrived in france . I heard alot of english nip back to uk for their paint cos the quality is better and i presume its cheaper. We found the plumber was one of the most expensive trades, also telling us that we needed to order through him cos they have to guarantee their work for 10 years. You are so right on the nail when you say for God sake do your homework first, and don't rush into anything , don't feel pressured to make a decision before you've checked out every angle, quote etc. We had a life of riley outside of the worries of the school and all the stress of the renovation, hot weather and me in my vegetable plot, picking all the cherries , the kids over the land on their quads or in the pool, no nosey neighbours, abit of fishing from our own bank, the baker coming past every tues ,thurs& sunday in his van full of pain and cakes and pain de chocolat. You dont get that in the uk and you certainly dont get it left behind your shutter if you are out and then pay next time. We just could have done with someone to hold our hand and give us the right advice instead of wading thru the quicksand for the first two years. We had alot of good times but i did miss things from the uk. Actually now we are back its nice cos you can converse without even having to think about it. I couldn't even have a decent row with the artisan or the school cos i didn't know enough french!!! Or rather enough bad words in french. But my God everything has changed so much !!! 15 yrs out of the uk , 6 of them in france. Its funny cos eventually we grew to become really good friends with the artisans we eventually used for the renovation and for more odd jobs after too. They used to say its a real english home, all roses in the front garden and the lawn all green and cut and edged. They would come round on a sunday morning for an english breakfast. My older son 14 used to get called roast beef at his school for fun. Mind you , he was pleasantly surprised by the bises/kiss kiss !! Well enough chat, i hope the build goes well, lovely idea.

Re: advice please!
 

Hello again All,
Could I have some views on the Charente region-pitou charente.Interested in a property there,possibly coming over for a few days with my daughter and her friend 1st week of April to have a look at a few properties in the area. If I book the trip I will come back for some B&B advice!
Many Thanks

Re: advice please!
 

Poitou Charente. Well we bought here, a couple of years ago, after a lot of umming and erring and quite a bit of of journeying around Europe .
We are, we think, very lucky. We live in a very friendly village, with excellent transport links close by. Our neighbours are generous in every way. People share resources (not just the very welcome fruit and vegetables, but roof tiles, and field stone - a generosity we as Brits are quite unused to).

The weather is good - but not horrendous. We had a hard winter, this year (and last). Not as many plans d'eau as the Dordogne perhaps, but still plenty around.
We are (we think) welcomed as we are bringing life back that was not here before. Speaking reasonable French helps immensely.
Poitou Charente is a beautiful part of France. Perhaps a bit of a time warp - which is why we like it. Like much of rural France the pace of life is gentle. We especially appreciate the everyday courtesy (except at lunchtimes!:rofl:).

The most off-putting thing we heard before we came was the impossible bureaucracy. I have to say we have found the opposite. There is no denying there is a fair bit of paperwork, but we have without exception found officialdom sympathetic and helpful. (But we do speak French - the number of people who complain to me that our compatriots do not is legion, in a very short space of time)
If you need more specific advice do please PM me. We will be only too happy to help.
Best of luck

Re: advice please!
 

What has not been mentioned is whether you are planning to move to France or not and also how much of a renovation you are willing or able to do yourself, and perhaps most crucial of all, without prying of course, how you plan to finance it ?

Clearly coming over with a big wodge of cash to buy then live on site while doing a totally DIY renovation is a very very different proposition to borrowing money and employing artisans and merely supervising the job during fleeting visits from UK.

Each of these factors, and many more, can hugely influence the direction you take so as was said early on, a very broad question to respond to.

Re: advice please!
 

Thank you for the response. I am looking at a buying renovation project that has some habitable space with a lump sum.I am semi retired but not in a postion to relocate completely yet,I would hope to come over for holidays and possibly for a better climate in the winter months (if it's possible to live on a pension?!!).I am a reasonable diy'er,so would make improvements as I go along, but may need to use artisans for specialist work.This would be a medium to long term project.
Hoping to come for a few days from the 2nd April.
Many Thanks

Re: advice please!
 

A habitable restoration project was our first for choice for a property when searching in 2006.

Some while later, and after God knows how many viewings, we ended up buying a 1970's house in need of little more than a cosmetic uplift, something which wasn't even on our list of possibles at the outset, go figure !

Be aware that 'habitable' seems to have a radically different meaning to the French. Some 'habitable' properties we were shown you wouldn't condemn your MIL to live in :eek:

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Ha Ha! Thanks for the advice,do you know anything about the Piotou Charente region?
Regards,

Re: advice please!
 

Sorry no, don't even know where Piotou Charente is :blink:

Only kidding :D

Re: advice please!
 

Booked the flights and hire car today,we arrive on the 2nd April and will leave on the 6th. If anyone can suggest reasonably priced hostel,camping,b&b? I'd be grateful.Flying to Limoges with a view to looking around the Poitou Charente,so around that area,the first property I'm looking at will be in Lesignac Durand.
Many Thanks

Re: advice please!
 

We bought in Poitou Charente 9 years ago. We are further west, about 50 mins inland from La Rochelle. We bought here because the climate and communications are good (La Rochelle and Poitiers airports within an hour, TGV to Poitiers as well and just off the A10). Also there are good beaches within an hour or so which is great for a change of scene.
Our neighbours are great - all French - they have helped us with all sorts of things and sourcing materials (40 euros for 3 cu metres of wood is a real bargain!!). Our house was habitable but we have renovated it and converted our attic to accommodation (all done during holidays as we are not yet permanently out here).
If you think you might be interested in looking further west in the region I am happy to help out...