bicks

Hi BritishExpats.com,

I have a European breakdown scenario situation with some colleagues,

Am just wondered if anyone know's how it works when you have a vehicle accidental damage situation, whereby a colleague is lent a car, but the owner of that vehicle does not have European breakdown cover, only 3rd party in Europe, but the car that the persons that it has been lent too, has causes accidental damage by hitting a rock underneath the engine in another owner's vehicle?

It's a tricky one, beforehand the owner MUST inform the other driver that there is NO European breakdown cover in Europe,

but on the other hand, the person who is not the owner of the vehicle before taking any kind responsibility of driving someone else's vehicle abroad MUST ask the owner before setting off in his vehicle - " does your vehicle have European breakdown cover?"

Any thoughts or suggestions much appreciated.

EuroTrash

I don't fully understand your post.
Personally, I think if I'd damaged someone else's car I'd feel obliged to offer to pay for the repair, although I'd hope they'd feel obliged to share the cost. But then again, I would never borrow anyone else's car without checking first that it was at least fully covered for accident damage. And if there was no breakdown insurance, I wouldn't take it on a long journey.

cyrian

Are you talking about breakdown cover or comprehensive insurance cover?

bicks

European Breakdown cover, when travelling in Europe, think most UK policies if you are already Fully Comp in the UK only insure you 3rd Party in Europe, if you don't have Breakdown cover

bicks

EXACTLY to that /\

Basically I should of said, who's liable? primarily

BritInParis

You're confusing car insurance with breakdown cover.

EuroTrash

+1
Car accident insurance and car mechanical breakdown insurance are two different things. From what you said it sounds like accidental damage not a fault that developed in the car.

As to who is liable, well I suppose technically the driver who hit the rock is liable for hitting the rock, unless someone threw it into his path, and the owner who failed to insure the car properly is liable for the fact that there is a repair bill in the offing and no accidental damage insurance to put in a claim on. That's the thing about accidents. Sometimes they are a result of someone being careless or incompetent, but sometimes they are nobody's fault, just bad luck and an unfortunate combination of circumstances, and that is why you insure against them, because no matter how careful you are, you can't stop that sort of accident from happening.

bicks

Sorry, I mean breakdown cover, because there was no European Breakdown Cover, and the owner of the vehicle "assumed" he already had it, but did not,
then lent his vehicle to a colleague who had an accident.

Is it a case of - "Loaning your car out can have serious repercussions. You are lending your car insurance, too. Insurance follows the car, not the driver" ?

Not sure, as its bit of grey area..joint liability or pay settlement,

BritInParis

If there was no third party involved I'm not sure why either the insurance or breakdown cover matters, particularly if the owner of the car only has third party cover. It should be something they should be sorting out between themselves. IMHO the driver who caused the damage should do the honourable thing and pay up. If they refuse to then the owner will have to but I don't think that will make for a particularly happy workplace.

bicks

yeah totally, regardless of not having European Breakdown cover

EuroTrash

Of course it also depends on the circumstances. In my view it would make a lot of difference whether the driver had borrowed the car for his own personal use and the owner had lent it to him as a favour, or whether he had been lent the car to make a journey on behalf of the owner and the driver was doing the owner a favour. In the latter situation, the owner should absolutely have made sure that all necessary insurance was in place before suggesting that another person drive it.

Arrangements between individuals aren't covered by law, unless the individuals concerned draw up a private legal agreement.

It might help if you say what the problem is. Is it the cost of getting the car taken to a garage?

Normally it's the owner's responsibility to insure his car.

But it's confusing when you keep talking about car insurance and then insisting you mean breakdown insurance. Most people use the term 'car insurance' to talk about accident insurance. If they mean breakdown insurance they say breakdown insurance.

bicks

Most people use the term 'car insurance' to talk about accident insurance. If they mean breakdown insurance they say breakdown insurance. -

Apologies yes, breakdown insurance is what I mean.

The owner lent his car to his colleague on behalf of him dropping friends at the airport.

Trying to ascertain where the liability sits... ?
the owner asking his colleague to drive his friends to the airport, or the driver that has been asked to drive the friends to the airport.

bicks

Is it the cost of getting the car taken to a garage?

Exactly, asthe UK vehicle is in France, with no breakdown cover, accidental damage was caused by a snow covered rock that impacted and shattered the oil sump under the engine, requiring a new/reconditioned engine. That's the crux of the problem. And getting it towed to the UK, rather than have it fitted in France.

EuroTrash

"Liability" is a legal term. The law doesn't legislate on private arrangements made between individuals. Thank goodness.

What you're talkiing about is personal responsibility.
In the light of what you've just said, I would say that if the colleague was only driving the car as a favour to the owner, then assuming he didn't run over a boulder, or whatever, on purpose, then owner should full take responsibility. Sounds like the driver has already suffered considerable inconvenience and wasted time and emotional upset.

If the owner asked the colleague to drive his car, to save him the trouble of taking his own friends to the airport, then the owner was responsible for setting the situation up. It would be reasonable to assume that he had thought through the implications. Otherwise he shouldn't have made the request in the first place.

When you agree to do someone a favour, you don't expect it to come back and smack you hard in the face do you, otherwise you would never do anyone another favour.

Conversely, if the driver had wanted to borrow the car for his own personal reasons, and the owner had lent it as a favour, then the driver should sort out any problems that arise. For exactly the same reason - that the owner had done him a favour and therefore, should not lose out as a result of doing that favour.

That's my personal view FWIW.

EuroTrash

I'm sorry but I would say that any owner who takes a UK vehicle to France should take out breakdown insurance, or be prepared to write off the vehicle/pay out if it comes to it. Cars break down, accidents happen, it's a bit stupid to set off without breakdown insurance and then whinge about being broken down with no insurance.

Nobody can see what's underneath snow. If the owner had been driving the car he might have hit the same rock, then he'd have had been in exactly the same situation except that he would have nobody to try and shift the blame onto.