mr mover

[...

The
Sad thing is in any other country the aftermath of this event would have probably bought down the government. It wont happen in America eh The Bush Admin probably even aded that into their Calculations.


More people died here than 9/11, the aftermath is little short of a political statement on the Americans.[/QUOTE]
Dont be to sure , I hear micheal Moore already loading his camera............ mm

seang

Dont be surprised. Seems his prior job was head of some international horse type federation. Has no experience in this area. Also seems he was room mate in college of the guy that appointed him to the post in FEMA-figure that one out!

michellemac

[QUOTE=the Wombats] I agree, however, perhaps this is more the case in New Orleans where there isn't the system (money) in place to effect an evacuation of their own citizens, let alone those of another country. When we go abroad we're taught to get in touch with our own embassy when things go wrong - in the USA where there are little or no public funds for this kind of thing (small tax= small government) then it's only natural that people look to their own govt. for help/assistance. I agree that on a practical level you an't have helicopters going in there and saving people of one nationality and not another, but at the same time if the US government isn;t even looking after it's own people, who else would you call on? If you were stuck in the desert in Afghanistan, who would you call on for help? Your own government or the afghan govt? I'd definitely go the the Australians/ brits first (being a dual citizen I have two embassies to whinge about! )

With regards to the other points about whether Australia (or the UK even?) could cope with such a disaster, I think there are two pertinent points here - first of all, housing regulations mean that the majority of houses are of brick/tile construction and in all cities have to comply with cyclone/fire/earthquake regulations and peple can afford to buy them or the govt allows them to rent them and more importantly the welfare systems of each country mean there is a basic level of income/access to infrustructure that the very poor in the US don't have. So - first of all the houses would (should) survive the cyclone/flood and secondly a much larger proprtion of the population would be able to afford to leave the area if ordered to.

That said, Howard's trying to get Australia down the small government route, as are the Conservatives in the UK. We need to accept that there are some things that free markets and corporations can't provide for us - one of them is evacuating poor people/other nationalities in the case of a natural disaster....I'm glad that in the UK and Australia there still is (comparatively) big government and a decent safetly net both to stop extreme, extreme poverty and to arrange assistance for everyone regardless of income in such situations.


Michelle

Badge

Most TV news is tabloid news. The exception, of course being late night UK news programming.

My view : if you want decent news listen to the radio. I find ABC Melbourne is quite adequate on John Faine's programme in the mornings.

Badge

mr mover

[QUOTE=Innyjim] WHY dont you admit you just dont ,like Aussies and you wish you never came here???................ mm

the Wombats

[QUOTE=nickyc] I for one never implied it was Oz v Brit, just that I know from experience if you are down on a country everything you hear or read from them is gonna get you all wound up. You should be here listening to the Brits coming home, to me they had a terrible few days in the dome, I thought how frightening it must have been, for an Oz or an Irish man or Welsh man listening they may have thought typical bloody Brits moaning again.
Just before Katrina hit it was down graded and know one really new for sure what would happen, those caught up in it who were not to poor to leave may have easily listened to those around when they were saying this isn't the first to hit it won't be the last we will be ok.

Can you honestly say if you were caught up in a disaster you would not cry for help from home? For those who moan about Oz bet if the Brit government didnt come to your rescue you would shout help from the Oz one.

OzTennis

67% of the population of New Orleans is black and mainly poor; 70% of children have single parents. With respect, it's a bit different to Florida, notwithstanding being built below sea level. Many couldn't afford to get out or were incapable of getting out - don't patronise by saying we weren't stupid enough to stay and see what it was like.

Bush diverted funds from the building up of the flood prevention walls to the effort in ... Iraq. As Jesse Jackson said the U.S. could drop food and water within 2 days on the Tsunami victims thousands of miles away. If 67% of the population was white like in most other U.S. cities I bet Bush wouldn't have stuffed about.

Now, front page news in the U.K. over the weekend was the terrible ordeal of a Scots girl and her American fiance inside the Louisiana Superdome. Being white, they were threatened with violence, the fiance had to stay awake all the time so the lass wasn't raped. She said they were advised by their travel agent in New York a couple of days before Katrina that it was OK to travel onto New Orleans! They were eventually airlifted out and dropped onto a highway with nothing - plastic cards, wallets, belongings etc stolen and they were wondering how they would contact British consular officials. They had been 'whinging' about their ordeal on US TV and a passing couple stopped, recognised them and the lass's accent and have taken them in.

OzTennis

pako

"There is rapes going on here. Women cannot go to the bathroom without men. They are raping them and slitting their throats," she told Reuters.


Quote from the BBC. If I was caught up in that yes I would be wanting help by own country. I would not call it whinging.

Simone

A few days ago I heard the sister of one of the Aussies(John Mcneal, don't know if he was one of the ones that's been on the news) in the Superdome talking on Triple J's Hack.
http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/hack/default.htm
Listen to Friday's program via Real player of Windows media player.

He was travelling. Was in South America. When he arrived in the US(dallas), the airline had lost his bag, so he ended up going to New Orleans a week later. He'd heard about a cyclone, but not much. He asked at Dallas airport about it, they said it was still fine to go, it wasn't going to hit for a couple of days and if it was going to hit, he'd have plenty of time to get out(fly out).
He arrived in New Orleans I think about 24 hours before Katrina hit. No chance of getting out at that stage of course!!!
And he probably also thought, well, we'll survive(I don't know).

He ended up at the Superdome, befriended some other Aussies, and realised they needed to band together to stay alive, so gathered up about 60 other foreign tourists.
The sister: "They were told they had to get out of the Superdome. People with guns told them to get out, otherwise they would be shot"
Finally(after about 2 days!!!) they got away to a hotel.
They witnessed at least one murder, and probably a lot of other stuff.

I'd be whinging too(not sure I'd be demanding a helicopter, but I'd definetly be wanting help!!) Btw, not one mention of the Aussie government in the interview above.....

None of us(well, I assume) have even been in a situation ANYTHING like THIS. We cannot think how it would be. Firstly without water, food, shelter. And then added to all the disaster of it all, and the shock of being caught up in it, the violence and the danger. And not knowing how to get out, when help was coming, etc.

the Wombats

[QUOTE=nickyc] I have just listened to one young Brit and he said he was told when in Miami that the storm was heading that way so they got out by the first available way and it was to New Orleans, when he got there he was then told to leave as it was now heading towards New Orleans. So he and his mates decided to leave there, but all grey hound buses finished running Saturday the day they arrived. All flights were full and had no way out. That is why he was stranded there. He was with two girls who were to frightened to go to the loo's in the dome because a young black girl had been raped in there and someone found her with her neck broken. It was only down to the national guards they got out in one peace. They were targets throughout.

You can not start saying people are thick for not leaving when they simply couldn't.

Simone

[QUOTE=the Wombats] Exactly.
As I said above, that guy I heard about did also not know the details about the hurricane, and was told at Dallas that it was still safe to go there.


Also, people talk about leaving. yes, they do not realise about flights full, busses full or not even going.

Also, there's only a few roads out of New Orleans, causeways or something, like bridges over the swamps.
Also, whats the point of walking out of the city. I wouldn't have!!! I'd rather try and rough it out in my basement, with food, water etc, than walking on busy highways, with no shelter, only being able to carry so much food and water.

FFS people, don't judge so easy

snowbunny

Simone, I have read that if the flood control systems in the Netherlands were compromised, 70% of the population would be under water.

In case of a catastrophic failure, or a terrorist attack, what is the plan for evacuating the Netherlands? There are even more people there in an area roughly equivalent to the affected area in the US.

Would the government start coordinating evacuations if it knew flooding was coming but could not stop it?

Because here in the US you only get a free ride out if the flooding has already put your life in peril -- not before then.

Simone

I haven't got a clue....
Yep, 70% sounds right, most of the population lives below sea level.
And the The Netherlands has a population of nearly 20 million I believe.....

I did spot something in the Dutch news about the Government looking at the risks again.
Ah, found it.

Minister says that situation is different though(well, first of all Holland doesn't get hurricanes, and it doesn't get that hot very often/long):
Netherlands does more for prevention, where as US looks more at evacuation after the disaster.... hmmm yes. I think The Netherlands would look more carefully at the dikes etc. The most busy/important part of The Netherlands is all below sea level(the 'Randstad', which includes Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague). Where as in the US, it's 'only' New Orleans, not worth the funding for the dike things

OzTennis

The home of the free, the 'greatest' democracy on earth???

OzTennis

Tableland

I'm not sure that being black is in the same category as being sick and old. I mean to say, I can understand how being poor, sick, pregnant, old, alone and certainly dead would preclude you from leaving New Orleans, but I don't understand how being black stopped you.