https://britishexpats.com/forum/ A forum for the discussion of visa/citizenship and GB passport topics related to British expats returning home with their families. (Please note: this section is NOT for the discussion of work related visas, nor for foreign nationals seeking to migrate to the UK.) en Fri, 05 Jun 2026 03:34:00 GMT vBulletin 1 https://britishexpats.com/forum/images/misc/rss.jpg https://britishexpats.com/forum/ https://britishexpats.com/forum/citizenship-passports-spouse-family-visas-uk-196/would-i-registered-4l-4c-957955/ Wed, 20 May 2026 13:20:02 GMT male —> male) I thought 4L is the route for me because I had a consular registration requirement that was impossible due to gender discrimination. The Romein decision removed the consular registration requirement. I wouldve been a British citizen if my grandma was recognized as citizen to pass down to my father, who I would then get citizenship via consular registration from. I have been that the home office is trying to categorize some people as 4C instead of 4L to limit claims. This clarification matters because I want to know if I’d get citizenship by descent (4C) or otherwise than by decent (4L)]]> I am a male born in 1964 in USA.
My father is a male born in 1931 in USA.
My grandma was born in the UK in 1903.

I thought 4C is for citizenship through women. (My chain goes woman —> male —> male)

I thought 4L is the route for me because I had a consular registration requirement that was impossible due to gender discrimination. The Romein decision removed the consular registration requirement.

I wouldve been a British citizen if my grandma was recognized as citizen to pass down to my father, who I would then get citizenship via consular registration from.

I have been that the home office is trying to categorize some people as 4C instead of 4L to limit claims.

This clarification matters because I want to know if I’d get citizenship by descent (4C) or otherwise than by decent (4L) ]]> Citizenship/Passports and Spouse/Family Visas (UK) TurtleDove https://britishexpats.com/forum/citizenship-passports-spouse-family-visas-uk-196/would-i-registered-4l-4c-957955/ https://britishexpats.com/forum/citizenship-passports-spouse-family-visas-uk-196/4l-double-descent-questions%3B-american-born-1993t-957806/ Fri, 08 May 2026 23:00:38 GMT Hi everybody. I'm looking into whether I can obtain UK citizenship, but my fear is that I am not eligible. Background:

• Maternal Grandmother born in East Riding of Yorkshire, England in 1922. She served in the Royal Air Force and it's my understanding her active service ended at the conclusion of WWII.
• Maternal Grandfather: American (US Army Air Corps) with no UK lineage. My grandparents married in England in 1945 and immediately moved to the USA.
• Mother born in USA in 1956. She has lived her entire life in USA.
• Me born in USA in 1993. I've lived my entire life in the USA.

My mom does not currently hold British citizenship; however, she falls into the category of persons who, at birth, were unable to inherit citizenship from their British mothers due to historical gender discrimination. This has been remedied; she can now register as a British citizen. It's my understanding she can become a UK citizen under 4C (citizenship by descent) or 4L (citizenship otherwise than by descent). (This distinction may be important). This is good news for my mom. But I might not be as lucky.

Assuming my mom obtained British citizenship, I went through a couple of scenarios of how I could obtain citizenship afterwards, but I think in each instance I encounter roadblocks preventing it. First, because I was born in 1993, I missed the train, so to speak, on the double descent claims for those born before 1 January 1988 (see Example 14 from Home Office's "Registration as a British citizen in special circumstances" Version 5 [link below]). Second, because my mom did not live in the UK for three years preceding my birth or 18th birthday, I am also not eligible under 3(2) or 3(5) (see Example 18). Therefore, my situation is akin to Example 10 and I would lose out.

Does this sound right?

Assuming everything checks out, imagine this hypothetical. If my mom obtained UK citizenship through 4L, she would become a British citizen otherwise than by descent. That would mean that if she had children born outside of the US, they'd become UK citizens by descent per 2(1)(a). Since I am her child, the math should be simple: her status + my birth = my citizenship. However, Example 24 (in particular) suggests the answer is no. The Home Office argues that we must look at a hypothetical world where no discrimination existed. In that world, because my mom was born in the US, she would have been a citizen by descent, and therefore could only have passed citizenship to me if she met the 3-year residency requirement.

But, without British citizenship, she had no automatic right to live and settle in the UK. By insisting on a residency requirement that was impossible for my mother to fulfill (because she was legally barred from the very citizenship that would have allowed such residency) the Home Office seems to be requiring proof of a condition that the discriminatory regime itself made substantially more difficult to satisfy. Arguably, it's the same sort of impossibility struck down in Romein. In Romein, the Supreme Court rejected reliance on counterfactual assumptions where the discriminatory legal framework itself prevented the relevant act from occurring (namely, consular registration). Put differently, you can't fault the mother in Romein for not registering her child because it would have been impossible for her to do so. Likewise, without citizenship, how can a residency rule be equitably enforced?

For example, in Example 24, the Home Office seems to assume that Dwight’s son Claude cannot benefit unless Dwight would independently have satisfied the three-year residence requirement before Claude’s birth or 18th birthday. But how realistically could Dwight have established that residence if the original discrimination prevented him from possessing the citizenship status that would have facilitated settlement in the UK in the first place?

I see a similar issue with Example 10. The Home Office says it cannot assume Rachel’s mother would have moved to the UK had she possessed citizenship. Fair enough. But at the same time, it's not hard to see that Rachel’s mother could have encountered difficulty relocating to the UK to satisfy the residence requirement without already possessing British citizenship allowing her to do so freely. Put differently, if Rachel's mom didn't have the ability to move to the UK that citizenship would have allowed her, how could she?

Thoughts? Any insight is sincerely appreciated. Thank you. ]]> Citizenship/Passports and Spouse/Family Visas (UK) n00bpwnr https://britishexpats.com/forum/citizenship-passports-spouse-family-visas-uk-196/4l-double-descent-questions%3B-american-born-1993t-957806/ https://britishexpats.com/forum/citizenship-passports-spouse-family-visas-uk-196/british-passport-application-major-issue-name-change-957758/ Thu, 07 May 2026 09:55:29 GMT Hello, I hope someone knowledgeable can advise on the following: Born and lived for about 20 years in country A. I still hold a valid passport from country A with my maiden name and use it mostly to enter that country when I visit. Lived in country B for another 20 years and acquired citizenship of that country based on residence. I was married by then and the authorities automatically used my married name for documents. I have a valid passport from country B that I predominantly use in everyday life and for most travel. I have been living in the UK for the past 6 years. Moved on spouse visa (husband is British) using passport B, then received ILR and applied for British citizenship. I received an email granting citizenship but haven’t attended the ceremony yet, which is in a few weeks. Started looking at the British passport application process and noticed that all other passports and nationalities must be in the same name before application is submitted to HMPO. To change my passport A to my married name will be a logistic nightmare not to mention very time-consuming, about 4 months, and I need to be in the country A to finish the process. Does anyone know if HMPO would accept a maiden name passport or will that create delays and possibly refusal? Does it make sense to apply for COE instead? Or would this also require changing the name on the old passport? I am very stressed about this situation and ready to abandon the whole citizenship process. Would be very grateful for advice. Hello,

I hope someone knowledgeable can advise on the following:

Born and lived for about 20 years in country A. I still hold a valid passport from country A with my maiden name and use it mostly to enter that country when I visit.

Lived in country B for another 20 years and acquired citizenship of that country based on residence. I was married by then and the authorities automatically used my married name for documents. I have a valid passport from country B that I predominantly use in everyday life and for most travel.

I have been living in the UK for the past 6 years. Moved on spouse visa (husband is British) using passport B, then received ILR and applied for British citizenship.

I received an email granting citizenship but haven’t attended the ceremony yet, which is in a few weeks.

Started looking at the British passport application process and noticed that all other passports and nationalities must be in the same name before application is submitted to HMPO.

To change my passport A to my married name will be a logistic nightmare not to mention very time-consuming, about 4 months, and I need to be in the country A to finish the process.

Does anyone know if HMPO would accept a maiden name passport or will that create delays and possibly refusal?

Does it make sense to apply for COE instead? Or would this also require changing the name on the old passport?

I am very stressed about this situation and ready to abandon the whole citizenship process.

Would be very grateful for advice. ]]> Citizenship/Passports and Spouse/Family Visas (UK) emeraldcity https://britishexpats.com/forum/citizenship-passports-spouse-family-visas-uk-196/british-passport-application-major-issue-name-change-957758/