Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

Lennart Petersen wrote:
    >

    > Actually I've the same experience, the airport was somewhat run-down. Real
    > unpleasant was the fact non-ticketed passengers (was 1998) were allowed inside the
    > departure area as long as they passed the security checks. Some of them walking
    > around asking for money to various projects.

And the loud-speaker system announcing at intervals in several languages that those
soliciters were not there under airport sanction, and passengers were not required to
to give them money! (Funny thing is, though, even now that no one is allowed past the
check-points without a ticket, that loud-speaker announcement is still being made -
one would think, by now, they'd have changed the recording!)

    > L.P

Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

grey wrote:
    >
    >
    > Same is true of the international terminal in Boston, Logan airport. In the summer,
    > always crammed beyond capacity. The arrival hall is a joke--luggage belt OK for a
    > 727 maybe, *not* a 747. Weary travelers stand three deep around that belt for an
    > hour, can easily wait another hour in line just to reach customs. A disgrace.

I agree! Especially if you are accustomed to the usually streamlined procedures at
European airports. It's true, due to the physical size of the country, there are
probably a great many more domestic flights departing from U.S. airports than
there are international ones. But that's supposedly the purpose of having
"international" terminals, isn't it? (Which should thus, in theory, be geared to
international travel?)

    > A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world
    > www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc...)

Re: World cities
 

In article <[email protected]>, "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Judith wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > Well, yes, because as a CITY it fails to hold together. It is so disorganized
    > > that hardly anyone knows where the center is, let alone actually goes there. LA
    > > feels like the world's largest collection of suburbs to me.
    >
    > Probably because it IS! When I first came here, the San Fernando Valley and Orange
    > County were rural areas with many small towns, separated by agricultural
    > enterprises. (Orange County had not only the citrus "ranches" from which it took
    > its name, but dairy farms - the "Valley" was more given over to cattle, plus other
    > food crops). Now there's just one big urban sprawl, from San Diego to Santa
    > Barbara. Some of the small communities allowed themselves to become officially
    > (politically) part of Los Angeles, others retain their individual "city"
    > governments although surrounded by "Los Angeles" on all sides. It's "unique",
    > certainly, but as a "world class" city, I'd have to agree with Judith.

Fair enough... but its influence on modern culture is quite significant and tourism
dollars is a huge actual number in the economy of Los Angeles. Los Angeles' economy
compares to some of the entire economies of the other cities countries.

jay Sat, May 18, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."

Re: World cities
 

Harvey V wrote:
    >
    > (A for classifying of places, I like the way that local newspapers in boring
    > suburban towns invariably play up those "liveability" surveys in which their
    > backwater winds up as the finest locale in the nation. They tend not to point out
    > that such surveys often don't allow for the excitement of big, complex and historic
    > urban places, because they couldn't be measured quantitatively.....)

They also don't allow for availability of jobs, for those who must support their
families, need to know they can find work, and so cannot afford to relocate simply
because the "quality of life" may be better. (It generally is, where the people are
affluent enough to support all the factors that make for "quality" life - good
schools, adequate law enforcement, clean, safe surroundings.....)

Re: World cities - Moscow etc.
 

Miguel Cruz wrote:

    > Important countries are the ones where things happen and decisions are made that
    > have ongoing regional and/or global impact.

And I would mean that Russia is one of them.

    >
    >
    > miguel
    > --
    > Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

//Emil Jelstrup

Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

I espied that on 18 May 2002, "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >
    > Harvey V wrote:
    >>
    >> (Me thinks: what a fun guy. Maybe he's insulted that I have no desire to stay in
    >> his country. Or maybe he knows how boring this airport is, and can't believe that
    >> someone wouldn't get out of it as quickly as possible......)
    >
    > Possibility #1: He was illiterate?

    > Possibility #2: He didn't speak English?

    > Possibility #3: He'd been told to ask those questions, and by God he was going to
    > ask them, whether he already had the answers in front of him or not! (Most airport
    > "security" personnel work for minimum wages - for that, you're lucky to get a warm
    > body - you want intelligence, too?)

Undoubtedly it was #3.......but a slight sprinkling of the other two isn't entirely
out of the equation......

--
Cheers, Harvey

Re: World cities
 

I espied that on 18 May 2002, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:

-snip-

    > Fair enough... but its influence on modern culture is quite significant and tourism
    > dollars is a huge actual number in the economy of Los Angeles.

The first point's legitimate, but only in terms of its product rather than LA's
existence as a place _per se_.

In world terms, the cultural product is I think viewed as "American" rather than
particularly belonging to "the place known as LA".

The proportion of tourist dollars as a percentage of any local economy, though, is
a poor indicator of "world" status: by that measure, San Gimignano is significant.
(I think the proportion of tourism dollars in that town's economy must be well
above 90%.)

    > Los Angeles' economy compares to some of the entire economies of the other cities
    > countries.

Hmmm......I'd like to see the figures on that. The "other cities' countries" we're
talking about here are places like Germany, Australia, the UK and France.

--
Cheers, Harvey

Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

I espied that on 18 May 2002, "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > It's true, due to the physical size of the country, there are probably a great many
    > more domestic flights departing from U.S. airports than there are international
    > ones. But that's supposedly the purpose of having "international" terminals, isn't
    > it? (Which should thus, in theory, be geared to international travel?)

Not only that, as an "international traveller", I don't expect or ask for much -- a
shaver point that takes something other than a domestic plug would be a nice,
thoughtful touch, though.......

I'm not hard to please.....

--
Cheers, Harvey

Re: World cities
 

In article <[email protected]>,
Harvey V <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I espied that on 18 May 2002, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > -snip-
    >
    > > Fair enough... but its influence on modern culture is quite significant and
    > > tourism dollars is a huge actual number in the economy of Los Angeles.
    >
    > The first point's legitimate, but only in terms of its product rather than LA's
    > existence as a place _per se_.

Try telling that to one of the millions that buy 'maps to the stars home'.

This week... throughtout the world, Star Wars was released from Fox Studios... right
in the center of Los Angeles... are people queuing for this movie in your town ?

    >
    > In world terms, the cultural product is I think viewed as "American" rather than
    > particularly belonging to "the place known as LA".

But its not... its a Los Angeles thing; movies, TV and even Music.
    >
    > The proportion of tourist dollars as a percentage of any local economy, though, is
    > a poor indicator of "world" status: by that measure, San Gimignano is significant.
    > (I think the proportion of tourism dollars in that town's economy must be well
    > above 90%.)

I wasnt saying as a proportion... just the raw numbers.
    >
    > > Los Angeles' economy compares to some of the entire economies of the other cities
    > > countries.
    >
    > Hmmm......I'd like to see the figures on that. The "other cities' countries" we're
    > talking about here are places like Germany, Australia, the UK and France.

Others included were Sydney,Turkey and Cairo, Los Angeles economy I think might be
very close to those. California has the 6-7 largest economy in the World... but it is
just reasonable conjecture on my part.

jay Sat, May 18, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."

Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

I believe that when Los Angeles airport was built in the early 1960s, there was
relatively little international traffic except to Mexico. Almost immediately, it
proved too small for the traffic it was meant to serve; and for years the plan was to
build a supersized airport out in the desert at Palmdale, which would be fiercely
inconvenient for ground transport to L.A. (over an hour when the traffic is light,
which it never is). In the meantime, other airports grew around Burbank, Ontario, and
Long Beach -- not to mention Orange County. One result of all this was to let LAX
decay gracefully, except for a patch up job at the time of the 1984 Olympics.

Result, Los Angeles Airport is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and
simple long-term planning.

Jim Paris Los Angeles

Harvey V wrote:

    > I espied that on 18 May 2002, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > -snip-
    >
    > > Los Angeles has the largest air cargo airport in the world and its passenger
    > > airport is 3rd in the world.
    >
    > 3rd in terms of what? Physical size, passenger movements, or aircraft movements?
    > (And if it's the latter, does that include local hobby flying?)
    >
    > The reason I ask is that I've been to LAX twice -- to change planes going from
    > London to Auckland -- and found it woefully underserviced from the standpoint of
    > international passenger facilities, certainly if you're in transit. A couple of
    > bars and restaurants were about it -
    > - and even some of those were closed because it wasn't the middle of the day. And
    > the sockets for electric shavers in the washrooms -- in the international zone,
    > mind you -- were US-only rather than those kind that accommodate all kinds of
    > shaver plugs that I'm used to in hotels. (Mind you, I had the same problem with
    > the shaver socket in a large international chain hotel near the airport -- I
    > rented a room to sleep during the 8-hour stopover -- so "international" isn't the
    > first word which springs to my mind to describe LA airport.)
    >
    > On my return the last time I changed at Chicago, which was a *lot* better in terms
    > of necessary services.
    >
    > -turn on rant mode-
    >
    > And where in LA do they get those guys on the passport examination desks? From some
    > Institute for the Incurably Thick?
    >
    > Changing planes, I knew that they would need to question me about the purpose of
    > entering the US and length of stay. So I present my passport, itinerary and the
    > boarding pass for the next leg of the journey (leaving in 3 hours.)
    >
    > He seems to look closely at all of the documents.
    >
    > Me, trying to help: I'm in transit from Auckland to London.
    >
    > Him: What is the purpose of your visit to the United States?
    >
    > Me, after a slight pause: To change planes.
    >
    > (Me thinks: "I thought it was the jet-lagged one of us that was supposed to
    > have problems adding 2 and 2 together.)
    >
    > Him: How long do you plan to stay in the United States?
    >
    > (Me thinks: some vague acknowledgement that you've actually got this
    > information in written and verbal form would be pleasant.)
    >
    > Me: Just long enough to change planes.
    >
    > Him: Are you intending to extend your visit?
    >
    > (Me thinks: only if you decide to confiscate my boarding pass, mate.)
    >
    > Me (pleasantly, not sarcastically, honest): No, I'm just changing planes.
    >
    > Him: Passes documents back without comment.
    >
    > (Me thinks: what a fun guy. Maybe he's insulted that I have no desire to
    > stay in his country. Or maybe he knows how boring this airport is, and
    > can't believe that someone wouldn't get out of it as quickly as
    > possible......)
    >
    > -turn off rant mode-
    >
    > --
    > Cheers, Harvey

Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

In article <[email protected]>,
James A Paris <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I believe that when Los Angeles airport was built in the early 1960s, there was
    > relatively little international traffic except to Mexico. Almost immediately, it
    > proved too small for the traffic it was meant to serve; and for years the plan was
    > to build a supersized airport out in the desert at Palmdale, which would be
    > fiercely inconvenient for ground transport to L.A. (over an hour when the traffic
    > is light, which it never is). In the meantime, other airports grew around Burbank,
    > Ontario, and Long Beach -- not to mention Orange County. One result of all this was
    > to let LAX decay gracefully, except for a patch up job at the time of the 1984
    > Olympics.
    >
    > Result, Los Angeles Airport is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and
    > simple long-term planning.

The vision of LAX was that of "Mr Airport", who just recently passed away.

http://www.transportnews.com/Article/143022

jay Sat, May 18, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

    >
    > Jim Paris Los Angeles
    >
    > Harvey V wrote:
    >
    > > I espied that on 18 May 2002, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > -snip-
    > >
    > > > Los Angeles has the largest air cargo airport in the world and its passenger
    > > > airport is 3rd in the world.
    > >
    > > 3rd in terms of what? Physical size, passenger movements, or aircraft movements?
    > > (And if it's the latter, does that include local hobby flying?)
    > >
    > > The reason I ask is that I've been to LAX twice -- to change planes going from
    > > London to Auckland -- and found it woefully underserviced from the standpoint of
    > > international passenger facilities, certainly if you're in transit. A couple of
    > > bars and restaurants were about it -
    > > - and even some of those were closed because it wasn't the middle of the day. And
    > > the sockets for electric shavers in the washrooms -- in the international zone,
    > > mind you -- were US-only rather than those kind that accommodate all kinds of
    > > shaver plugs that I'm used to in hotels. (Mind you, I had the same problem with
    > > the shaver socket in a large international chain hotel near the airport -- I
    > > rented a room to sleep during the 8-hour stopover -- so "international" isn't
    > > the first word which springs to my mind to describe LA airport.)
    > >
    > > On my return the last time I changed at Chicago, which was a *lot* better in
    > > terms of necessary services.
    > >
    > > -turn on rant mode-
    > >
    > > And where in LA do they get those guys on the passport examination desks? From
    > > some Institute for the Incurably Thick?
    > >
    > > Changing planes, I knew that they would need to question me about the purpose of
    > > entering the US and length of stay. So I present my passport, itinerary and the
    > > boarding pass for the next leg of the journey (leaving in 3 hours.)
    > >
    > > He seems to look closely at all of the documents.
    > >
    > > Me, trying to help: I'm in transit from Auckland to London.
    > >
    > > Him: What is the purpose of your visit to the United States?
    > >
    > > Me, after a slight pause: To change planes.
    > >
    > > (Me thinks: "I thought it was the jet-lagged one of us that was supposed
    > > to have problems adding 2 and 2 together.)
    > >
    > > Him: How long do you plan to stay in the United States?
    > >
    > > (Me thinks: some vague acknowledgement that you've actually got this
    > > information in written and verbal form would be pleasant.)
    > >
    > > Me: Just long enough to change planes.
    > >
    > > Him: Are you intending to extend your visit?
    > >
    > > (Me thinks: only if you decide to confiscate my boarding pass, mate.)
    > >
    > > Me (pleasantly, not sarcastically, honest): No, I'm just changing planes.
    > >
    > > Him: Passes documents back without comment.
    > >
    > > (Me thinks: what a fun guy. Maybe he's insulted that I have no desire to
    > > stay in his country. Or maybe he knows how boring this airport is, and
    > > can't believe that someone wouldn't get out of it as quickly as
    > > possible......)
    > >
    > > -turn off rant mode-
    > >
    > > --
    > > Cheers, Harvey
    >

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."

Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

James A Paris <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Result, Los Angeles Airport is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and
    > simple long-term planning.

Los Angeles is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and simple
long-term planning.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Re: World cities
 

Harvey V <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Los Angeles' economy compares to some of the entire economies of the other cities
    >> countries.
    >
    > Hmmm......I'd like to see the figures on that. The "other cities' countries" we're
    > talking about here are places like Germany, Australia, the UK and France.

Los Angeles metro area population: 16,373,645 Australia national population:
19,357,594

I think you're within the range where comparison is interesting.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Miguel
Cruz) wrote:

    > James A Paris <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Result, Los Angeles Airport is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and
    > > simple long-term planning.
    >
    > Los Angeles is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and simple long-term
    > planning.

LAX and the Port are the cash cows of the city and have never properly funded these
resources.

jay Sat, May 18, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

    >
    > miguel

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."

Re: World cities
 

Go Fig wrote:
    >

    > > individual "city" governments although surrounded by "Los Angeles" on all sides.
    > > It's "unique", certainly, but as a "world class" city, I'd have to agree with
    > > Judith.
    >
    > Fair enough... but its influence on modern culture is quite significant and tourism
    > dollars is a huge actual number in the economy of Los Angeles. Los Angeles' economy
    > compares to some of the entire economies of the other cities countries.

Well, as the original poster said, it's very much a matter of subjective judgement.
Also, I think L.A. is essentially a young person's town. (I thought it was great when
I came out here in 1954, but have grown somewhat disillusioned with it in the
intervening years.)

    >
    > jay Sat, May 18, 2002 mailto:[email protected]
    >
    > --
    >
    > Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
    > "Nevertheless, it does move."

Re: World cities
 

In article <[email protected] t>,
[email protected] wrote:

    > Le Sat, 18 May 2002 02:47:33 -0700, Icono Clast <[email protected]> a écrit :
    >
    > >> there are cities, and there are "world cities".
    > >>
    > >> From my experience, world cities are -
    > >>
    > >> San Francisco Sydney London Berlin Seoul Tokyo Cairo Paris Rome Rio
    >
    > > I live in one and have visited four of the others. How can you have omitted
    > > Manhattan?
    >
    > Perhaps because Manhattan isn't a city, it's a burough (did I spell that
    > correctly ?).

Manahttan is a borough, or sometimes a boro. New York City has five boroughs. Most of
the time, when a resident of an outer borough (any of the other four) is going to
Manhattan, they say they are going to the city. ;)

--
Food/Wine/Travel web sites http://www.worldtable.com
http://forums.egullet.com/ikonboard....ff;act=SF;f=10

Re: World cities
 

Go Fig wrote:
    >
    > This week... throughtout the world, Star Wars was released from Fox Studios...
    > right in the center of Los Angeles... are people queuing for this movie in
    > your town ?

Is Fox really in the center of LA?? Are you referring to the Production Facilities on
Pico, or someplace else? I would hardly call 10201 W Pico, the "center" of LA.

Re: World cities
 

Desmond Coughlan wrote: Icono Clast a écrit :

    > > How can you have omitted Manhattan?
    >
    > Perhaps because Manhattan isn't a city, it's a burough

Well, duh, right you are. I should have asked:

How can you have omitted the city of which Manhattan is a borough?
__________________________________________________ ___________
ICONO CLAST -- A San Franciscan in 47.335 mile² San Francisco
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ IClast at SFbay Net

Re: World cities
 

Desmond Coughlan wrote: Icono Clast a écrit :

    > > How can you have omitted Manhattan?
    >
    > Perhaps because Manhattan isn't a city, it's a burough

Well, duh, right you are. I should have asked:

How can you have omitted the city of which Manhattan is a borough?
__________________________________________________ ___________
ICONO CLAST -- A San Franciscan in 47.335 mile² San Francisco
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ IClast at SFbay Net

Re: World cities
 

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" wrote:
    > > LA feels like the world's largest collection of suburbs to me.
    >
    > Probably because it IS! When I first came here, the San Fernando Valley and Orange
    > County were rural areas with many small towns, separated by agricultural
    > enterprises.

Many is the time that, in rec.travel.* fora, I've remembered riding the Big Red Cars
of Pacific Electric through the corn fields of Watts on the way to Long Beach.

    > Now there's just one big urban sprawl, from San Diego to Santa Barbara.

Our non-North American friends are probably unable to visualize what that means or,
if they can, wrap their minds around it.

    > Some of the small communities allowed themselves to become officially (politically)
    > part of Los Angeles, others retain their individual "city" governments although
    > surrounded by "Los Angeles" on all sides. It's "unique", certainly,

Los Angeles? Or one community being completely surrounded by another? If the latter,
'tisn't unique: California's Piedmont is completely surrounded by Oakland.

    > but as a "world class" city, I'd have to agree with Judith.

How could one possibly not? I've been saying something similar for decades. But, I'm
compelled to confess, I've never failed to enjoy visiting down there. It's fun!

«¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤ ¦ ¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤»
ICONO CLAST - A San Franciscan in San Francisco - IClast at SFbay Net
http://geocities.com/dancefest/

Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

Harvey V wrote:
    > I espied that on 18 May 2002, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote: Changing planes, I knew
    > that they would need to question me about the purpose of entering the US and length
    > of stay. So I present my passport, itinerary and the boarding pass for the next leg
    > of the journey (leaving in 3 hours.) . . .

    > Him: Passes documents back without comment.
    >
    > (Me thinks: what a fun guy. Maybe he's insulted that I have no desire to
    > stay in his country. Or maybe he knows how boring this airport is, and
    > can't believe that someone wouldn't get out of it as quickly as
    > possible......)

That's SO unfair! Weren't your documents in _Australian_ rather than _American_
English? Sheesh!

Miguel Cruz said:
    > James A Paris <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Result, Los Angeles Airport is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and
    > > simple long-term planning.
    >
    > Los Angeles is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and simple long-term
    > planning.

Not true! "Long-term planning" in Los Angeles is defined differently. It's something
like 10, maybe 20, years.

BTW, the highly dis-recommended Hotel Century Plaza occupies the site where Fox
Studios used to be. I happened to be down there when it opened and followed the
search lights to the party. They wouldn't let me in. Stayed there year 'fore last and
it was incredibly bad. All of us were dis-satisfied for many reasons but mostly
because of the mis-treatment that we received. We talked about it in rec.arts.dance
in December of 2000. I might have posted a note here at the time or in
rec.travel.usa-canada.

«¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤ ¦ ¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤»
ICONO CLAST - A San Franciscan in San Francisco - IClast at SFbay Net
http://geocities.com/dancefest/

Re: World cities
 

On Sun, 19 May 2002 01:02:37 GMT, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!

    >This week... throughtout the world, Star Wars was released from Fox Studios... right
    >in the center of Los Angeles... are people queuing for this movie in your town ?

Were the studio portions of Attack of the Clones not filmed just outside London, I
know 4, 5 and 6 were and IIRC 1 was as well.

Megan
--
Megan Farr Montgomery

Lille kat, lille kat, lille kat på vejen Hvis er du, Hvis er du Jeg er sgu' min egen
- Piet Hein

Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

In article <[email protected]>, Icono Clast <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Harvey V wrote:
    > > I espied that on 18 May 2002, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote: Changing planes, I
    > > knew that they would need to question me about the purpose of entering the US and
    > > length of stay. So I present my passport, itinerary and the boarding pass for the
    > > next leg of the journey (leaving in 3 hours.) . . .
    >
    > > Him: Passes documents back without comment.
    > >
    > > (Me thinks: what a fun guy. Maybe he's insulted that I have no desire to
    > > stay in his country. Or maybe he knows how boring this airport is, and
    > > can't believe that someone wouldn't get out of it as quickly as
    > > possible......)
    >
    > That's SO unfair! Weren't your documents in _Australian_ rather than _American_
    > English? Sheesh!
    >
    > Miguel Cruz said:
    > > James A Paris <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > Result, Los Angeles Airport is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and
    > > > simple long-term planning.
    > >
    > > Los Angeles is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and simple long-term
    > > planning.
    >
    > Not true! "Long-term planning" in Los Angeles is defined differently. It's
    > something like 10, maybe 20, years.
    >
    > BTW, the highly dis-recommended Hotel Century Plaza occupies the site where Fox
    > Studios used to be.

A portion of where Fox use to be,,, cause it is still there.

jay Sun, May 19, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

    > I happened to be down there when it opened and followed the search lights to
    > the party. They wouldn't let me in. Stayed there year 'fore last and it was
    > incredibly bad. All of us were dis-satisfied for many reasons but mostly
    > because of the mis-treatment that we received. We talked about it in
    > rec.arts.dance in December of 2000. I might have posted a note here at the
    > time or in rec.travel.usa-canada.
    >
    > «¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤ ¦ ¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤»
    > ICONO CLAST - A San Franciscan in San Francisco - IClast at SFbay Net
    > http://geocities.com/dancefest/
    >
    >

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."

Re: World cities
 

On Sun, 19 May 2002 05:09:43 GMT, "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >
    >Go Fig wrote:
    >>
    >
    >> > individual "city" governments although surrounded by "Los Angeles" on all sides.
    >> > It's "unique", certainly, but as a "world class" city, I'd have to agree with
    >> > Judith.
    >>
    >> Fair enough... but its influence on modern culture is quite significant and
    >> tourism dollars is a huge actual number in the economy of Los Angeles. Los
    >> Angeles' economy compares to some of the entire economies of the other cities
    >> countries.
    >
    >Well, as the original poster said, it's very much a matter of subjective judgement.
    >Also, I think L.A. is essentially a young person's town. (I thought it was great
    >when I came out here in 1954, but have grown somewhat disillusioned with it in the
    >intervening years.)

Random reactions:

L.A. has many facets. One has to make one's own life; find one's own social circles.

It is difficult to ignore the superficial, materialistic pop culture that is centered
here in the entertainment and communications industries, but not impossible.

The area, especially the beach towns and the mountains, has such glorious weather;
that alone is a reason to live here.

Plus, whatever the Effete East Coast <g> thinks, the L.A. area has culture out the
kazoo. So there!

The downside, of course, is the overcrowding, overbuilding, over-everthing!
Overcrowding leads to rudeness, a la rats in a cage. Also, the educational system is
shot to hell, so the younger people are frighteningly ignorant. It is hard to
communicate with (most of) them.

We used to go down to San Diego (130 miles) and shop across the border in Tijuana
(Mexico). On the way, rolling hills, beautiful scenery. Now it's wall-to-wall
ticky-tacky crowning the hills.

Sigh!

--
Polar

Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

"Long term"? What's that? (We're talking Los Angeles, California here - many people
don't expect to be inhabitants that long!)

Miguel Cruz wrote:
    >
    > James A Paris <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Result, Los Angeles Airport is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and
    > > simple long-term planning.
    >
    > Los Angeles is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and simple long-term
    > planning.
    >
    > miguel
    > --
    > Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
    > photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Re: World cities
 

Michael Voight wrote:
    >
    > Go Fig wrote:
    > >
    > > This week... throughtout the world, Star Wars was released from Fox Studios...
    > > right in the center of Los Angeles... are people queuing for this movie in your
    > > town ?
    >
    > Is Fox really in the center of LA?? Are you referring to the Production Facilities
    > on Pico, or someplace else? I would hardly call 10201 W Pico, the "center" of LA.

True enough! (But I've lived here for over forty years, and I'm not at all
certain WHERE the "center" is.) "City Center" meaning the city government offices
is in downtown
L.A., but everything else is scattered all over the place - including the law courts.

Re: World cities
 

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" wrote:

    > True enough! (But I've lived here for over forty years, and I'm not at all certain
    > WHERE the "center" is.) "City Center" meaning the city government offices is in
    > downtown
    > L.A., but everything else is scattered all over the place - including the law
    > courts.

How many city law courts are there in LA? I thought they were generally set up on a
county basis in California. At least that is how it is up north.

LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)
 

Dans l'article <[email protected]>, "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> a écrit :

    >
    >
    > Harvey V wrote:
    >>
    >> (Me thinks: what a fun guy. Maybe he's insulted that I have no desire to
    >> stay in his country. Or maybe he knows how boring this airport is, and
    >> can't believe that someone wouldn't get out of it as quickly as
    >> possible......)
    >
    > Possibility #1: He was illiterate?
    >
    > Possibility #2: He didn't speak English? (Although the U.S. is SUPPOSED to be an
    > English-speaking country, and few of our native-born citizens speak anything else,
    > it appears to be "discrimination" if employers insist upon fluency in English, when
    > hiring people who will be dealing with the public.)
    >
    > Possibility #3: He'd been told to ask those questions, and by God he was going to
    > ask them, whether he already had the answers in front of him or not! (Most airport
    > "security" personnel work for minimum wages - for that, you're lucky to get a warm
    > body - you want intelligence, too?)

On our last trip to the US in January, we got pulled over for the special security
check twice, in Boston and in Phoenix. All of the people checking us had English as a
second language, in some cases I felt it was a very distant second. Ironically, I had
my best luck with the one who spoke French. I could understand him all of the time.

Donna Evleth
    >
    >
    >>
    >> -turn off rant mode-
    >>
    >> --
    >> Cheers, Harvey

Re: World cities
 

mrtravel wrote:
    >
    > "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" wrote:
    >
    > > True enough! (But I've lived here for over forty years, and I'm not at all
    > > certain WHERE the "center" is.) "City Center" meaning the city government offices
    > > is in downtown
    > > L.A., but everything else is scattered all over the place - including the law
    > > courts.
    >
    > How many city law courts are there in LA? I thought they were generally set up on a
    > county basis in California. At least that is how it is up north.

Either way. (Perhaps I misinterpret "municipal" when used to describe courts - but
"city" or "county" they are still scattered all over Greater Los Angeles.)

Re: World cities
 

Polar ([email protected]) wrote:

    > The area, especially the beach towns and the mountains, has such glorious weather;
    > that alone is a reason to live here.

You can discern the state of the weather through all that smog?

Re: World cities
 

"Judith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > "mpprh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Hi
    > >
    > > I've been following the various threads entitles something like "Should I go to
    > > X ?...
    > >
    > > It seems to me there are cities, and there are "world cities".
    > >
    > > From my experience, world cities are -
    > >
    > > San Francisco Sydney London Berlin Seoul Tokyo Cairo Paris Rome Rio
    > >
    > >
    > > In order of number of letters !
    > >
    > > Of course this is subjective,
    > >
    > > Any comments ?
    > >
    > > Peter
    >
    > You certainly left off many I think of as cities of interest to the entire world! I
    > would have left off San Francisco and added New York, for a start. Seoul, but not
    > Venice? Berlin but not Paris? Too many disagreements to adequately approach here.
    > For me, all cities are worth a look. St Petersburg, for example, with incredible
    > art and physical beauty. Peking, Shanghai, Hong Kong, even. Marakech and Madrid,
    > Barcelona, Vienna, Budapest...my list is a whole lot longer than yours.

I would suggest Melbourne rather than Sydney in Australia for cultural diversity and
the arts. Sydney is colourful and warmer however with architectural icons e.g. Opera
House and Sydney Harbour Bridge. Regional Victoria (of which Melbourne is the
capital) has more artists per square mile than anywhere else in Australia and many
galleries are now hosting international prizes and shows of which we get entries from
around the world.

Re: World cities
 

Geoff McCaughan wrote:
    >
    > Polar ([email protected]) wrote:
    >
    > > The area, especially the beach towns and the mountains, has such glorious
    > > weather; that alone is a reason to live here.
    >
    > You can discern the state of the weather through all that smog?

LOL! It's not nearly so bad as it was in the 1950's, and other cities have it too -
Phoenix and Denver, for starters.

Re: World cities - Moscow etc.
 

"Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Emil Jelstrup <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Miguel Cruz wrote:
    > >> Is Russia one of the most important countries in the world? That's a
big
    > >> question!
    > >
    > > Yes, Russia *is* one of the most important countries in the world! It's the
    > > biggest country in the world (covers almost a half of Europe and the whole
    > > Northern Asia)
    >
    > Australia and Canada are both tremendously huge countries geographically
but
    > I would continue to dispute any assertion that it catapults them to top
    > player status.

Canada as some sort of world power? I'd be laughing to hard to dispute a claim
like that...

Richard

Re: World cities
 

On Tue, 21 May 2002 15:50:02 GMT, "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >
    >Geoff McCaughan wrote:
    >>
    >> Polar ([email protected]) wrote:
    >>
    >> > The area, especially the beach towns and the mountains, has such glorious
    >> > weather; that alone is a reason to live here.
    >>
    >> You can discern the state of the weather through all that smog?
    >
    >LOL! It's not nearly so bad as it was in the 1950's, and other cities have it too -
    >Phoenix and Denver, for starters.

In a way, it isn't as bad as the 1950's, because extreme polluting cars are now
off the road. I had an old Studebaker with a soft block that laid down a
trail...koff, koff...!

OTOH, there are so many more cars, that I wonder if an analysis has ever been done to
establish whether there is a net gain due to cleaner cars, or whether quantity has
overtaken quality.

Note that I *did* specify "beach towns and mountains", because on a smog day, there's
a discernable difference only a mile or so inland from the sea. (lucky me!!!)

On a day like this, after a (surprise!) little rain, everything is washed so clean
and the sky is so blue and the air is so cool... bliss!


--
Polar

Re: World cities
 

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" wrote:
    > Geoff McCaughan wrote:
    > > You can discern the state of the weather through all that smog?

    > LOL! It's not nearly so bad as it was in the 1950's, and other cities have it too -
    > Phoenix and Denver, for starters.

Last year, perhaps the year before, I commented in rec.travel.usa-canada about
seeing, for the first time in m'mem'ry, mountains from either the San Diego or Santa
Monica freeway.

My first visit to DisneyLand, shortly after its opening, I had breakfast in Norwalk.
The smog was so bad, and it made me cry so much, that I could hardly see what I was
eating. It's SO much better now. The worst smog I've seen in recent years has been in
Mexico City, Santiago, São Paulo, and Rio de Janeiro. Santiago's an interesting case
because it's on a plateau and then, a bit farther East, the Andes rise blocking
anything, like dirty air, trying to go farther. Although not on a plateau, Rio's
topography works just about the same way. Come t'think of it, so does Los Angeles'.

«¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤ ¦ ¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤»
ICONO CLAST - A San Franciscan in San Francisco - IClast at SFbay Net
http://geocities.com/dancefest/

Re: World cities
 

Athens too

    >Suggestion for a sub-group - "Places that once were world cities but no longer are.
    >But they still look and feel like world cities". That way Vienna gets on the list.

Pedro Menendez

Oviedo (Asturias) - Spain

http://petra.euitio.uniovi.es/~i1641014