Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Europe
Reload this Page >

Winter Fuel Allowance - Europe pensioners and expats.

Winter Fuel Allowance - Europe pensioners and expats.

Old Dec 19th 2014, 8:04 am
  #16  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 12,837
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
The Algarve daily new report suggests that the process to make this part of UK law has now started.
Which means that the process of mounting a legal challenge to it can also begin.
Red Eric is offline  
Old Dec 19th 2014, 3:36 pm
  #17  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2
BrianCave is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

Those who have the gumption can write to MPs and Lords who sit on the Committee which examines Statutory Instruments (SIs) That is what this is all about. Steve Webb MP Minister for Pensions has tabled a SI which would exclude British residents of seven EU Countries from receiving the WFP.
The SI should be reviewed by that committee - Remember that the WFP is not paid for out of the Nat. Ins. Fund and no-one has contributed to it,
Nevertheless it is an old-age benefit and the only requirement is that one has a genuine link to the UK and be in receipt of the State Pension or other benefit. If you have suffered cold winters - say so.
The list of members of the committee are given here. You can get the addresses of the members by going to the line above the information of Commons or Lords.

Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments - membership - UK Parliament
BrianCave is offline  
Old Dec 19th 2014, 6:05 pm
  #18  
EMR
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

There is an article about this in todays on line daily telegraph referring to the number of expats in France who will be excluded from Wfa under the new rules.
EMR is offline  
Old Dec 19th 2014, 7:15 pm
  #19  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 12,837
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
There is an article about this in todays on line daily telegraph referring to the number of expats in France who will be excluded from Wfa under the new rules.
If it's this article it raises some obvious grounds on which the first challenges to the law might be based.

The comments are interesting, too - far from unanimously against the idea of expats needing or being entitled to the allowance.
Red Eric is offline  
Old Dec 20th 2014, 5:48 am
  #20  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 63
robbo462003 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
I am suprised that no one else has commented on the article in Local News, World News, Property News, Business Directory, FREE Classifieds in the Algarve. that confirms that the amendment that withdraws WFA allowance from expats living in some countries outside of the UK will soon become law.
Pensioners living in France miss out on payment after officials 'manipulate' calculations - Telegraph
robbo462003 is offline  
Old Dec 20th 2014, 7:09 am
  #21  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
GeniB's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 6,313
GeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

Guess it's time we British ex-pats all joined Richard Graham and Roger Boaden's campaign's then..Instead of reading varying true or otherwise reports in the press and just hoping things work out for us. Roger is campaigning against the possible loss of the WFA..and Richard has been tirelessly working for the re-instatement of voting rights for British ex-pats
GeniB is offline  
Old Dec 20th 2014, 7:21 am
  #22  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
GeniB's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 6,313
GeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

If the UK does vote to leave the EU there is a very real threat to the many million of British ex -pat retirees that their pensions will not be index linked (as in Australia) There is even a whisper that it won't be paid to anyone living outside the UK.Speculation and alarmist I know,but then we have read some of the views on the UKIP site.I for one will not sit quietly allowing events to overtake me.I will help the campaigns as much as I can.Its estimated that there are about 5 million British ex-pats in Europe.Not a group that should be just ignored
GeniB is offline  
Old Dec 20th 2014, 8:04 am
  #23  
EMR
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
If the UK does vote to leave the EU there is a very real threat to the many million of British ex -pat retirees that their pensions will not be index linked (as in Australia) There is even a whisper that it won't be paid to anyone living outside the UK.Speculation and alarmist I know,but then we have read some of the views on the UKIP site.I for one will not sit quietly allowing events to overtake me.I will help the campaigns as much as I can.Its estimated that there are about 5 million British ex-pats in Europe.Not a group that should be just ignored
The reason why so many epats receive WFP is because of an EU ruling.
It is decisions like this which is why there is so much antipathy against the EU in the UK.
I cannot see the current government and if re elected accepting any change in the proposed legislation.
It does not specify expats but rather links WFP to a notional average "UK " winter temperature.
Should the UK leave the EU or even renegotiate its terms of membership many of those EU rulings regarding benefit payments etc will be questioned if not overturned.

The question of allowing votes for expats is different, how you would under the UK constituency system organise this may be difficult.
EMR is offline  
Old Dec 20th 2014, 8:24 am
  #24  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2
BrianCave is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

There are a group of us, mostly but not all resident in France - They include Margaret Hales in Spain, Rodney Harper in Paris and myself (Brian Cave) supported by various others like Paul Rees in The Algarve who have been trying hard to awaken the expatriate citizens to the potential dangers ahead. The Winter Fuel payment saga is a small example of what might come, especially if the UK left the EU.
The Statutory Instrument I have spoken of can be seen via this link.
<snip>

The whole matter will get worse unless (especially) the pensioner citizen learns to stand firm and together - <snip>
WE must have a voice at Westminster and appropriate political representation (like the French!). To that end Rodney Harper developed his blog site called The right to vote campaign for the expatriate British
LASTLY if we are not going to be picked off segment by segment, one by one, then we must take action- To start with get your vote for the 2015 election. https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote
I would observe that the Labour Party intends to not pay the WFP to richer citizens, they have said nothing about the expatriate citizens. The Conservatives say they will grant voting status to ALL British citizens whether they live - but will they be re-elected, but they desire to reduce payments to the expatriates and still refuse to pay proper pensions to those in Australia etc.. If the Conservatives return and they mount a referendum - would our citizen colleagues in the UK choose to leave the EU - if so where the hell would we be? Do you have a say?



Concerning the WFP itself I have sent a dossier which includes Roger Boaden's 20 page analysis to the co-ordinating Committee for Social Security at the EU. On the face of it Steve Webb's Stat Inst is illegal under EU law.

Last edited by christmasoompa; Jan 25th 2015 at 6:22 pm. Reason: As per site rules, you cannot link to your blog.
BrianCave is offline  
Old Dec 20th 2014, 8:38 am
  #25  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 12,837
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
The reason why so many epats receive WFP is because of an EU ruling.
It is decisions like this which is why there is so much antipathy against the EU in the UK.
What was the ruling made by the EU?
Red Eric is offline  
Old Dec 20th 2014, 8:53 am
  #26  
EMR
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

That expats should receive wfp.
EMR is offline  
Old Dec 20th 2014, 9:07 am
  #27  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
GeniB's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 6,313
GeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

[QUOTE=EMR;11508498]
It does not specify expats but rather links WFP to a notional average "UK " winter temperature.


Yes I know this ruling wasn't mean't to be for ex-pats alone, but the changes were proposed specifically to exclude those ex-pats living in warmer climates.They realised that if they did their survey in places like the Dordogne they would be hoisted with their own 'whatsists' As its freezing cold there in the winter often covered in feet of snow So they did their survey in places like the Canaries,Bermuda,the British Virgin Islands...Not places known for snow and ice,or for poorer ex-pats come to that..What is the British average winter temperature?
I have never applied for this allowance,being lucky enough not to need it,but do know of people who do who have absolutely no need of it.It should be income and circumstance related if they continue it..but heh...why not pay a living wage pension in the first place ,maybe take it out of the obscene military fund? just a thought
GeniB is offline  
Old Dec 20th 2014, 9:35 am
  #28  
EMR
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

[QUOTE=GeniB;11508531]
Originally Posted by EMR View Post
It does not specify expats but rather links WFP to a notional average "UK " winter temperature.


Yes I know this ruling wasn't mean't to be for ex-pats alone, but the changes were proposed specifically to exclude those ex-pats living in warmer climates.They realised that if they did their survey in places like the Dordogne they would be hoisted with their own 'whatsists' As its freezing cold there in the winter often covered in feet of snow So they did their survey in places like the Canaries,Bermuda,the British Virgin Islands...Not places known for snow and ice,or for poorer ex-pats come to that..What is the British average winter temperature?
I have never applied for this allowance,being lucky enough not to need it,but do know of people who do who have absolutely no need of it.It should be income and circumstance related if they continue it..but heh...why not pay a living wage pension in the first place ,maybe take it out of the obscene military fund? just a thought
The UK figure used is for the SW of England ,the warmest part of the UK.

Anyone expat who did not receive WFP before 2012 knew what the rules were and still moved so what have they got to complain about.
EMR is offline  
Old Dec 20th 2014, 9:55 am
  #29  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
GeniB's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 6,313
GeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

[QUOTE=EMR;11508545][QUOTE=GeniB;11508531]

The UK figure used is for the SW of England ,the warmest part of the UK.

Figured it would be! The UK IS London and the southern counties for many in Parliament. The EU was probable trying to attend to the horrors of many old people dying of hypothermia because they couldn't afford to heat their homes,as happened in Paris one memorable winter not so long ago. As we are assured now of Global Warming this shouldn't ever be a problem again,should it Mr Cameron?
GeniB is offline  
Old Dec 20th 2014, 1:23 pm
  #30  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 12,837
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: End of Winter Fuel Allowance

What was the ruling made by the EU?
Originally Posted by EMR View Post
That expats should receive wfp.
I figured that's probably what you thought but it's highly unlikely given that the case that forced the change was, in fact, about payment of disability allowance.

Some expats, of course, already received WFP, due to a change previously implemented after discussion with the EU Commission about exportability of benefits.

Originally Posted by EMR
Anyone expat who did not receive WFP before 2012 knew what the rules were and still moved so what have they got to complain about
Knowing the rules is hardly a good basis for deciding whether they are fair (or, indeed, legal within the framework of EU membership).

Originally Posted by GeniB
Originally Posted by EMR
The UK figure used is for the SW of England ,the warmest part of the UK.
Figured it would be! The UK IS London and the southern counties for many in Parliament
It would be a lot less acceptable if the temperature test were based on the coldest region of the UK, surely
Red Eric is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.