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use of stolen credit cards at highway toll booth

use of stolen credit cards at highway toll booth

Old Sep 14th 2002, 6:15 pm
  #31  
Evelyn Vogt Gamble
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of Cheques in Europe (was: use of stolen credit cards at highway

Tim Challenger wrote:
    > > > Personal Cheques? Cheque cards? beep, does not compute, does not
    > compute,
    > > > beep ;-) Are there any countries in Europe (OK say the EU/EEA) except the UK
    > that
    > > > personal cheques are still widely used if at all? I know the
    > Eurocheque -
    > > > the normal personal cheque - is no linger used anywhere.
    > >
    > > In almost two years in the Netherlands, I have yet to encounter an actual cheque.
    > > But giros and betaalopdrachten (which serve a similar function) are common.
    > Yes, if that's the same as the "Ãœberweisungschein" in German - but they are really
    > used by the payee, rather than cheques which are "issued" from the side of the
    > payer. You don't go around with a bunch of them in your pocket an pay for things
    > with them - they're normally used for bank transfers. At least here they are.

I'm curious - in the U.S., even with credit cards and ATM cards, many people
(including me) still use personal checks(ques) for paying things like utility bills,
household workers, etc., and I don't know of any business that does not pay its bills
by paper check. Are you saying that is not true in Europe, or do I musunderstand
what you mean by "personal cheques"?
 
Old Sep 14th 2002, 7:27 pm
  #32  
The Oik
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of Cheques in Europe (was: use of stolen credit cards at highway toll booth)

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Tim Challenger wrote:
    > >
    > > > > Personal Cheques? Cheque cards? beep, does not compute, does not
    > > compute,
    > > > > beep ;-) Are there any countries in Europe (OK say the EU/EEA) except the
    > > > > UK
    > > that
    > > > > personal cheques are still widely used if at all? I know the
    > > Eurocheque -
    > > > > the normal personal cheque - is no linger used anywhere.
    > > >
    > > > In almost two years in the Netherlands, I have yet to encounter an actual
    > > > cheque. But giros and betaalopdrachten (which serve a similar function) are
    > > > common.
    > >
    > > Yes, if that's the same as the "Ãœberweisungschein" in German - but they
are
    > > really used by the payee, rather than cheques which are "issued" from
the
    > > side of the payer. You don't go around with a bunch of them in your
pocket
    > > an pay for things with them - they're normally used for bank transfers.
At
    > > least here they are.
    > I'm curious - in the U.S., even with credit cards and ATM cards, many people
    > (including me) still use personal checks(ques) for paying things like utility
    > bills, household workers, etc., and I don't know of any business that does not pay
    > its bills by paper check. Are you saying that is not true in Europe, or do I
    > musunderstand what you mean by "personal cheques"?

most companies pay their bills with bank transfers (generated via computer) - the
last cheque I saw from a company was a deliberate attempt to delay payment (and
that's one cheque in the last three years of trading). Personally, all my bills
get paid by:
1: telephone or internet generated transfer from my bank account (eg household
utilities)
2: direct debit or standing order (eg local taxes - I can't do anything about them!)
3: debit or credit card (eg cell phone bill - I dont trust them with access to my
bank account!) and the occasional cheque when I deal with people too small to take
cards (very rare).
 
Old Sep 14th 2002, 9:00 pm
  #33  
Timo Valtonen
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of Cheques in Europe (was: use of stolen credit cards at highway toll booth)

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'm curious - in the U.S., even with credit cards and ATM cards, many people
    > (including me) still use personal checks(ques) for paying things like utility
    > bills, household workers, etc., and I don't know of any business that does not pay
    > its bills by paper check. Are you saying that is not true in Europe, or do I
    > musunderstand what you mean by "personal cheques"?

Personal cheques have not been used in Finland since the introduction of bank cards
some 15+ years ago. Household and business bills were paid by filling out a bank
transfer form (part of the invoice) and sending it to bank. Then came telephone
transfers, which were dull to perform as it was a painstaking job to dial all the
account etc. numbers. Now 99,9 % of business payments are done electronically and
more than half of household bills are done on the internet. Some people pay bills at
ATM's, few still send transfer forms to bank.

Bank or credit cards are used for most on-the-spot transactions, even taxi fares. The
newest fad is to pay for small services by cell phones, for services like tram and
metro tickets, car wash, parking, etc. Yesterday I noticed that the juke-box at my
neighbourhood pub accepts only cell phone payments.

The ammount of cash in circulation is very low, which makes the central bank happy.
I believe more than half of the population hasn't touched a bigger bank note than 20
or 50 Euro.

Note for traveller: travellers's cheques are very much frowned upon here, very few
shops take them. Banks charge horrible service fees for handling them.

tv
 
Old Sep 14th 2002, 9:53 pm
  #34  
James Silverton
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of Cheques in Europe (was: use of stolen credit cards at highway toll booth)

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Tim Challenger wrote:
    > >
    > > > > Personal Cheques? Cheque cards? beep, does not compute, does not
    > > compute,
    > > > > beep ;-) Are there any countries in Europe (OK say the EU/EEA) except the
    > > > > UK
    > > that
    > > > > personal cheques are still widely used if at all? I know the
    > > Eurocheque -
    > > > > the normal personal cheque - is no linger used anywhere.
    > > >
    > > > In almost two years in the Netherlands, I have yet to encounter an actual
    > > > cheque. But giros and betaalopdrachten (which serve a similar function) are
    > > > common.
    > >
    > > Yes, if that's the same as the "Ãœberweisungschein" in German - but they
are
    > > really used by the payee, rather than cheques which are "issued" from
the
    > > side of the payer. You don't go around with a bunch of them in your
pocket
    > > an pay for things with them - they're normally used for bank transfers.
At
    > > least here they are.
    > I'm curious - in the U.S., even with credit cards and ATM cards, many people
    > (including me) still use personal checks(ques) for paying things like utility
    > bills, household workers, etc., and I don't know of any business that does not pay
    > its bills by paper check. Are you saying that is not true in Europe, or do I
    > musunderstand what you mean by "personal cheques"?

Have you ever heard the collective groans in a supermarket "fast" line when
someone in the US
--
James V. Silverton Potomac, Maryland, USAdecides to pay by check? It's not
unreasonable perhaps since the checker will also give you cash burt the proces
is sloooow!
 
Old Sep 14th 2002, 9:55 pm
  #35  
Bob Fusillo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stolen Credit Cars -- a tale

Some years ago a renter stole all our furniture while we were abroad. She also got
one of my credit cards that was mailed to the address. I told the detective who was
working on the case about the card, and he checked with the credit card company. The
thief had made about 1200 dollars in charges. The credit card company said that they
would not want to bother pursuing such a small amount! rjf

"Not the Karl Orff" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
able.net
...
    > In article <[email protected]>, AKS
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Have you ever heard of this?? and if so can anyone tell me what to do??
    > >
    > > My credit cards were stolen in Barcelona this spring. I cancelled them
    > > immediately with my CC company. Nevertheless charges from various toll booths all
    > > over Spain and France started coming in two months later (on all of my CCs). My
    > > bank couldn't help - VISA couldnt' help. Everybody referred me to someone else. I
    > > even searched the net for the responsible agencies of highway toll booths and
    > > send them emails.
    > >
    > > 1) how can it even be that authorization is being forced through on cancelled
    > > CC??
    > >
    > > and 2) who is the right agency to write to, to stop these charges??
    > >
    > Which bank was it? I lost a Visa card issued by a U.K. bank (was formerly a
    > buildng society) in a SW France toll machine. Cancelled the card within 2 hours of
    > losing it but I got toll charges in France and Spain for months after.
 
Old Sep 14th 2002, 10:24 pm
  #36  
Gregory Morrow
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Stolen Credit Cars -- a tale

"Bob Fusillo" wrote:

    > Some years ago a renter stole all our furniture while we were abroad. She also got
    > one of my credit cards that was mailed to the address. I told
the
    > detective who was working on the case about the card, and he checked with the
    > credit card company. The thief had made about 1200 dollars in charges. The credit
    > card company said that they would not want to bother pursuing such a small amount!

It's not worth their time to pursue such a small amount - they'll simply write it
off. And increasingly, some CC issuers won't even go after deadbeat cardholders who
default on such smaller amounts due...again, not worth their time.

--
Best Greg
 
Old Sep 14th 2002, 11:53 pm
  #37  
James Silverton
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of Cheques in Europe (was: use of stolen credit cards at highway toll booth)

"James Silverton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > Tim Challenger wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > > Personal Cheques? Cheque cards? beep, does not compute, does not
    > > > compute,
    > > > > > beep ;-) Are there any countries in Europe (OK say the EU/EEA) except
    > > > > > the
UK
    > > > that
    > > > > > personal cheques are still widely used if at all? I know the
    > > > Eurocheque -
    > > > > > the normal personal cheque - is no linger used anywhere.
    > > > >
    > > > > In almost two years in the Netherlands, I have yet to encounter an actual
    > > > > cheque. But giros and betaalopdrachten (which serve a
similar
    > > > > function) are common.
    > > >
    > > > Yes, if that's the same as the "Ãœberweisungschein" in German - but
they
    > are
    > > > really used by the payee, rather than cheques which are "issued" from
    > the
    > > > side of the payer. You don't go around with a bunch of them in your
    > pocket
    > > > an pay for things with them - they're normally used for bank
transfers.
    > At
    > > > least here they are.
    > >
    > > I'm curious - in the U.S., even with credit cards and ATM cards, many people
    > > (including me) still use personal checks(ques) for paying things like utility
    > > bills, household workers, etc., and I don't know of any business that does not
    > > pay its bills by paper check. Are you saying that is not true in Europe, or do I
    > > musunderstand what you mean by "personal cheques"?
    > Have you ever heard the collective groans in a supermarket "fast" line
when
    > someone in the US
    > --
    > James V. Silverton Potomac, Maryland, USAdecides to pay by check? It's not
    > unreasonable
perhaps
    > since the checker will also give you cash burt the proces is sloooow!

Sorry everyone, you may be able to sort out what I meant but this is not the message
I thought I was sending :-)

Jim.
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 1:49 am
  #38  
Grey
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Stolen Credit Cars -- a tale

On Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:55:54 GMT, "Bob Fusillo" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Some years ago a renter stole all our furniture while we were abroad. She
    >also got one of my credit cards that was mailed to the address. I told the
    >detective who was working on the case about the card, and he checked with
    >the credit card company. The thief had made about 1200 dollars in charges.
    >The credit card company said that they would not want to bother pursuing
    >such a small amount!

Well, here's another tale--got mine pickpocketed in Rome from my front
pocket. Maxed out in 15 minutes for $25,000 (took that long to get to
a phone after searching the streets and garbage cans (in case the
wallet had been discarded after the money removed) and trying to get
police interested--they weren't). The Visa people said some jewelers
in Rome were in on it, would sell the pickpocket diamonds, then split
the proceeds when the diamonds were sold. Anyway, Citibank was great,
FedExed new card to me, free. I wasn't responsible for any charges,
but wasted the day at the police station getting a written report in
case I needed it (line was blocks long--all pickpocketed).

[BTW, please don't tell me how to carry money safely...I use an
inside-pants wallet now, etc. Rome was the first time I was
pickpocketed successfully (and even then most of my cards were back in
the hotel), before, I've picked the pickpocket up, carried him into a
restaurant yelling for the police (rather transfixed the many of the
patrons!). I also get buttons sewn onto my back right pants
pocket--why the heck do men's pants come with a button only on the
left back pocket when you need it on the right???]
---------------------------
A truly cool book:
The World Is Already Yours
Conscious living in the real world
www.alreadyyours.com (sample
chapter, etc...)
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 2:31 am
  #39  
Evelyn Vogt Gamble
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Stolen Credit Cars -- a tale

Bob Fusillo wrote:
    > Some years ago a renter stole all our furniture while we were abroad. She
    > also got one of my credit cards that was mailed to the address. I told the
    > detective who was working on the case about the card, and he checked with
    > the credit card company. The thief had made about 1200 dollars in charges.
    > The credit card company said that they would not want to bother pursuing
    > such a small amount!

But they didn't try to make YOU pay it, did they? Speaking
of renters stealing furniture, back in the 1960's some
friends of mine rented out a small ranch property here in
Southern California. When their renters moved out (owing
several months' rent) they took EVERYTHING - even the
plumbing fixtures!


    > rjf
    > "Not the Karl Orff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:canwine-56C30-
    > [email protected]
    ...
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > AKS <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Have you ever heard of this?? and if so can anyone tell me what to do??
    > > >
    > > > My credit cards were stolen in Barcelona this spring. I cancelled them
    > > > immediately with my CC company. Nevertheless charges from various toll
    > > > booths all over Spain and France started coming in two months later (on
    > > > all of my CCs). My bank couldn't help - VISA couldnt' help. Everybody
    > > > referred me to someone else. I even searched the net for the responsible
    > > > agencies of highway toll booths and send them emails.
    > > >
    > > > 1) how can it even be that authorization is being forced through on
    > > > cancelled CC??
    > > >
    > > > and 2) who is the right agency to write to, to stop these charges??
    > > >
    > >
    > > Which bank was it? I lost a Visa card issued by a U.K. bank (was
    > > formerly a buildng society) in a SW France toll machine. Cancelled the
    > > card within 2 hours of losing it but I got toll charges in France and
    > > Spain for months after.
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 2:43 am
  #40  
Evelyn Vogt Gamble
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of Cheques in Europe (was: use of stolen credit cards at

James Silverton wrote:
    > "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > [url="news:[email protected]"]news:[email protected][-
    > /url]...
    > >
    > >

    > >
    > > I'm curious - in the U.S., even with credit cards and ATM
    > > cards, many people (including me) still use personal
    > > checks(ques) for paying things like utility bills, household
    > > workers, etc., and I don't know of any business that does
    > > not pay its bills by paper check. Are you saying that is
    > > not true in Europe, or do I musunderstand what you mean by
    > > "personal cheques"?
    > Have you ever heard the collective groans in a supermarket "fast" line when
    > someone in the US

No, but perhaps that's because, if I plan to cash a check
when I pay for my groceries, I already have it made out, so
it probably takes less time than if I paid with my ATM
card. It's the people paying with food stamps (requiring
the clerks to produce their change in food stamps, too -
they aren't allowed to give cash for them), and the
houswives during rush hours with a hundred "discount"
coupons for a large cart full of purchases that evoke most
of the groans, here! (Anyway checks are not allowed in the
"fast" lane in markets here - and I've seen people refused
service when they got in the "ten items or less" line with a
cart full of groceries.)


    > --
    > James V. Silverton
    > Potomac, Maryland, USAdecides to pay by check? It's not unreasonable perhaps
    > since the checker will also give you cash burt the proces is sloooow!
 
Old Sep 15th 2002, 4:10 am
  #41  
James Silverton
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of Cheques in Europe (was: use of stolen credit cards at highway toll booth)

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
t
...
    > James Silverton wrote:
    > >
    > > "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in
message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >
    ...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I'm curious - in the U.S., even with credit cards and ATM
    > > > cards, many people (including me) still use personal
    > > > checks(ques) for paying things like utility bills, household
    > > > workers, etc., and I don't know of any business that does
    > > > not pay its bills by paper check. Are you saying that is
    > > > not true in Europe, or do I musunderstand what you mean by
    > > > "personal cheques"?
    > >
    > > Have you ever heard the collective groans in a supermarket "fast" line
when
    > > someone in the US
    > No, but perhaps that's because, if I plan to cash a check
    > when I pay for my groceries, I already have it made out, so
    > it probably takes less time than if I paid with my ATM
    > card. It's the people paying with food stamps (requiring
    > the clerks to produce their change in food stamps, too -
    > they aren't allowed to give cash for them), and the
    > houswives during rush hours with a hundred "discount"
    > coupons for a large cart full of purchases that evoke most
    > of the groans, here! (Anyway checks are not allowed in the
    > "fast" lane in markets here - and I've seen people refused
    > service when they got in the "ten items or less" line with a
    > cart full of groceries.)
    > > --
    > > James V. Silverton
    > > Potomac, Maryland, USAdecides to pay by check? It's not unreasonable
perhaps
    > > since the checker will also give you cash burt the proces is sloooow!


I guess I live in an irritatingly polite part of the world, believe it or
not :-)

Jim.
 
Old Sep 16th 2002, 7:56 am
  #42  
Miguel Cruz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of Cheques in Europe (was: use of stolen credit cards at

Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:
    > No, but perhaps that's because, if I plan to cash a check when I pay for
    > my groceries, I already have it made out, so it probably takes less time
    > than if I paid with my ATM card.

At my local supermarket I can swipe my card and enter my PIN while the
clerk is scanning my purchases, so paying by ATM card takes zero time (well,
it's time that would otherwise be used tapping my foot and making
smalltalk).

But anyway, I can't think of the last time I've written a check. Among
people I know, it seems there's a schism - half of them are very comfortable
with their online banking and wouldn't dream of writing another check, and
half of them are exactly the other way around.

The company I work for only uses checks to pay incidental 1099 people -
everyone else is required to sign up for direct deposit. If I need to buy
something for work purposes I have to pay with my company credit card.

Between all that, I just never see the things. Certainly don't miss 'em.
Never made much sense to me.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world:
http://travel.u.nu
New mini photo-feature: Life in DC:
http://travel.u.nu/dc/
 
Old Sep 16th 2002, 12:15 pm
  #43  
Osmo Ronkanen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of Cheques in Europe (was: use of stolen credit cards at highway toll booth)

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Tim Challenger wrote:

    > I'm curious - in the U.S., even with credit cards and ATM
    > cards, many people (including me) still use personal
    > checks(ques) for paying things like utility bills, household
    > workers, etc., and I don't know of any business that does
    > not pay its bills by paper check. Are you saying that is
    > not true in Europe, or do I musunderstand what you mean by
    > "personal cheques"?

In Finland the company wanting your money sends you a bank transfer
with its bank account, date due, and a reference number. You have several
options in paying it:

1) You can go to the comnpany itself and pay by cash. This is free.
2) You can go to a bank and pay by cash. For this they charge up to 6 euro.
3) You can add your account, sign it and send it to your bank. This costs
up to 2 euro.
4) You can go to an ATM and pay it. The bills have a bar code to make that
simpler. This costs up to 1 euro, or can be free if you pay a
monthly package fee. You need to use special ATM for that purpose
and typically of your own bank.
5) You can use net to pay it. This is free though you may need to
pay a package fee.
6) You can use touch tone phone. This also is free if one ignores
the package and charge for the call. Even local calls cost here
at minimum 12 cents.
7) You can bake an agreement with the bank that the same amount is
paid monthly. This is commonly done with rent. It is typically free
IIRC.
8) You can agree that the company charges directly from your account.
In this case you do not get a bill but just an advance notification.
You can stop the payment if you need to. This is typically free.

In some cases you may need a receipt as proof of payment. This may
limit the options. In practice such are rare and are mainly for small
companies etc. Normally you get a monthly report from the bank which
can be used as proof of payment if necessary.

The trend is towards no paper methods. You can in some cases even agree
that the bill is sent electronically.

The recipient pays also somemething, like 13 cents, for each payment it
gets. Private persons do not pay for received bank transfers.

Osmo
 
Old Sep 16th 2002, 1:04 pm
  #44  
Tim Challenger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of Cheques in Europe (was: use of stolen credit cards at highway toll booth)

    > > I'm curious - in the U.S., even with credit cards and ATM
    > > cards, many people (including me) still use personal
    > > checks(ques) for paying things like utility bills, household
    > > workers, etc., and I don't know of any business that does
    > > not pay its bills by paper check. Are you saying that is
    > > not true in Europe, or do I musunderstand what you mean by
    > > "personal cheques"?

I think we are both talking the same language here.
Yes I'm saying it's not true in Europe, at least as no-one has answered to
the contrary I assume it's basically the same everywhere as here in Austria.
The case with the UK is different, I believe where personal cheques are
still quite common (correct me if I'm wrong). I haven't used (issued or
recieved) a personal cheque for over 2 years. And it took me nearly 2 years
to use up my last book of 20 eurocheques.
Shopping is paid for either by cash or ATM card with a PIN.
Utility bills (electricity, gas, water etc) are paid for by direct debit
from the account - the company sends me an account at the end of the year or
whenever with how much they will charge. If I don't agree I get a certain
time to complain. Either that or they send me a bank transfer form
pre-filled out (see below).

Businesses pay thier bills either by direct debit, or by these bank transfer
forms, which they would send out (pre-printed with amount and bank details
of the company) in the same envelope as the bill.

If I want to pay a freind, say, and I don't have the cash, he gives me his
bank details and I transfer the money (either via the bank clerk, or I fill
out a bank transfer form or via the internet).
You can use a cheque to draw cash from your account - eg when on holiday. As
we don't have cheques any more (in Austria) we have to rely on the ATMs. No
problem really.

[as an aside, the bank transfer form is similar to but not quite the same as
a cheque as it is normally issued by the person who demands the money, not,
as is the case with a cheque, by the person wanting to pay].
 
Old Sep 17th 2002, 2:54 am
  #45  
Evelyn Vogt Gamble
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of Cheques in Europe (was: use of stolen credit cards at

Miguel Cruz wrote:
    > But anyway, I can't think of the last time I've written a check. Among
    > people I know, it seems there's a schism - half of them are very comfortable
    > with their online banking and wouldn't dream of writing another check, and
    > half of them are exactly the other way around.

Age may be a factor. A lot of us who have been around a
while have less faith in the accuracy of our banks - or of
the companies who keep begging us to pay online. There is
also that incontrovertible "proof of payment" - one's
cancelled check - which is conspicuously missing, with
electronic payments. (Even though one now has to pay some
banks to return one's cancelled checks, many of us consider
it worth the expense.)
 

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