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Road to a Grecian turn?

Road to a Grecian turn?

Old Jul 20th 2015, 9:16 pm
  #796  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas
Actually the official Greek GDP has dropped by a third in the last 5 years but there is no reason why this drop cannot be recovered if everyone in Greece is prepared to work hard (which is by no means assured).
It's this kind of attitude that makes me despair.


It's long known that Troika policies create unemployment - and you say the lack of will to "work hard" is the problem. I'm tempted to use words twat would get me banned from this forum.
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Old Jul 21st 2015, 4:54 am
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by Red Eric
It's this kind of attitude that makes me despair.


It's long known that Troika policies create unemployment - and you say the lack of will to "work hard" is the problem. I'm tempted to use words twat would get me banned from this forum.
Calm down, dear - it's only an opinion!

Before the Troïka came along, the Greeks paid no tax, retired early, received huge unemployment benefits and cheated on welfare benefits.

The initial reforms demanded by the Troïka were poorly implemented by a stubborn government and equally stubborn unions.

So who created this problem, the Greek government or the Troïka?
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Old Jul 21st 2015, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas
Calm down, dear - it's only an opinion!

Before the Troïka came along, the Greeks paid no tax, retired early, received huge unemployment benefits and cheated on welfare benefits.

The initial reforms demanded by the Troïka were poorly implemented by a stubborn government and equally stubborn unions.

So who created this problem, the Greek government or the Troïka?
talking of creating problems, I see the real figures are in for Varoufakeit's Q1 primary surplus. You may recall fakeit claimed to have run a Q1 primary surplus of 1.732 billion....The actual figure is -2.295 billion.

only a little white lie of over 4 billion euros...
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Old Jul 21st 2015, 4:52 pm
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike
talking of creating problems, I see the real figures are in for Varoufakeit's Q1 primary surplus. You may recall fakeit claimed to have run a Q1 primary surplus of 1.732 billion....The actual figure is -2.295 billion.

only a little white lie of over 4 billion euros...
Now I could use words which would get me banned from BE to describe what I think of that piece of s---e.
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Old Jul 21st 2015, 4:54 pm
  #800  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas
Calm down, dear - it's only an opinion!

Before the Troïka came along, the Greeks paid no tax, retired early, received huge unemployment benefits and cheated on welfare benefits.

The initial reforms demanded by the Troïka were poorly implemented by a stubborn government and equally stubborn unions.

So who created this problem, the Greek government or the Troïka?
So what was wrong with this, sounds good to me, The system worked for many years, they just needed a few more Euro Monopoly sets and to keep on going past go without taking a chance.
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Old Jul 22nd 2015, 7:00 pm
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

So members of Syriza, who are against the bailout, have now openly criticised Tsipras for, amongst other things, negotiating with the Troïka without having a viable alternative economic plan. Er, shouldn't Varoufakis, the esteemed economics professor, game player strategist, ex-Finance Minister and now one of the Syriza members voting against the bailout, have been the one to come up with it? Or maybe, just maybe, there was no alternative?
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Old Jul 22nd 2015, 7:40 pm
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by Red Eric
It's this kind of attitude that makes me despair.


It's long known that Troika policies create unemployment - and you say the lack of will to "work hard" is the problem. I'm tempted to use words twat would get me banned from this forum.
Have read lots and digested much and also have a feeling of empathy with Red Eric who I feel Has taken a kicking. Simple request. Read, Absorb and think.......

Many months ago two politicos met and said we are in the brown stuff.
There is no way you can rescue this.
.VAT is too low,Pensions are too high,Tax evasion is too much
How do we get out of this???

?Why don't I piss Merkel,Schrauble and Junckers off and then you can ask for a bail out.?
Then we will get the country to agree to raise VAT lower Pensions,collect tax AND it will all be their fault.
And they will give us funds and guarantee our loans.
Don't be a Greek Pratt, no one would believe that!!!!
But it would show Europe you can't trust those nasties.
W T F let's do it.if
It can't get worse can it???

?Just a question?
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Old Jul 22nd 2015, 7:56 pm
  #803  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Latest nugget is that the government has backtracked on bringing the huge numbers of so called farmers who pay on,y 13% tax into the standard tax system.
Greece has one of the highest percentages of so called farmers in Europe.
Taxi drivers, office workers etc etc, all farmers !
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Old Jul 22nd 2015, 8:27 pm
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by EMR
Latest nugget is that the government has backtracked on bringing the huge numbers of so called farmers who pay on,y 13% tax into the standard tax system.
Greece has one of the highest percentages of so called farmers in Europe.
Taxi drivers, office workers etc etc, all farmers !
Fact or Opinion???

Links???
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Old Jul 23rd 2015, 4:30 am
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by ordenado
Fact or Opinion???

Links???
You just need to search Google for it, I found it quite easily.
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Old Jul 23rd 2015, 6:28 am
  #806  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas
So members of Syriza, who are against the bailout, have now openly criticised Tsipras for, amongst other things, negotiating with the Troïka without having a viable alternative economic plan. Er, shouldn't Varoufakis, the esteemed economics professor, game player strategist, ex-Finance Minister and now one of the Syriza members voting against the bailout, have been the one to come up with it? Or maybe, just maybe, there was no alternative?
There was an alternative plan - Tsipras bottled it and overruled Varoufakis, which is what led to his resignation.
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Old Jul 23rd 2015, 6:33 am
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by EMR
Latest nugget is that the government has backtracked on bringing the huge numbers of so called farmers who pay on,y 13% tax into the standard tax system.
They have 900 plus pages of legislation to enact as part of the preconditions to starting negotiations. The farming tax isn't part of those preconditions - there have been no complaints from the creditors about that. The creditors, remember, are overseeing the legislation that is being implemented.
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Old Jul 23rd 2015, 6:44 am
  #808  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas
...Varoufakis, the esteemed economics professor, game player strategist, ex-Finance Minister and now one of the Syriza members voting against the bailout...

On the vote in the Greek Parliament last night :-
Yanis Varoufakis, the high-profile former finance minister, supported the measures. Last week he had voted against the first set of bailout conditions, including VAT rises and pension cuts, after resigning his post. But in this case, Varoufakis said, the specific measures being voted on included reforms he had previously put forward himself.
That's Yanis Varoufakis, ex Greek Finance Minister, who apparently didn't come up with any credible reforms during the past 5 months of so-called negotiations.

Last edited by Red Eric; Jul 23rd 2015 at 6:47 am.
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Old Jul 23rd 2015, 8:11 am
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by Red Eric
On the vote in the Greek Parliament last night :-
Yanis Varoufakis, the high-profile former finance minister, supported the measures. Last week he had voted against the first set of bailout conditions, including VAT rises and pension cuts, after resigning his post. But in this case, Varoufakis said, the specific measures being voted on included reforms he had previously put forward himself.
That's Yanis Varoufakis, ex Greek Finance Minister, who apparently didn't come up with any credible reforms during the past 5 months of so-called negotiations.
I think you must have misread my post Eric - here is what I said was:-

"So members of Syriza, who are against the bailout, have now openly criticised Tsipras for, amongst other things, negotiating with the Troïka without having a viable alternative economic plan. Er, shouldn't Varoufakis, the esteemed economics professor, game player strategist, ex-Finance Minister and now one of the Syriza members voting against the bailout, have been the one to come up with it? Or maybe, just maybe, there was no alternative? "

There's no mention anywhere in my post of "credible reforms" !
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Old Jul 23rd 2015, 8:30 am
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

The "credible reforms" comment wasn't specifically directed at you Vino. It was the fact that Varoufakis voted for the measures proposed last night which I was highlighting. And, as an aside, that contrary to what has been said many times on this thread and all over the world, the Greek government (and Varoufakis in particular) have come up with "credible" reforms, some of which are now being enacted.
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