Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

Greece pays €450m to the IMF but where did the money come from? The short answer is that they raised €1.1bn from the sale of 6-month T-bills yesterday.

Who bought the bonds? According to the Greek Deputy Finance Minister it was entirely covered by domestic buyers.

Please refer to my post #247.

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

No worries Vino - an account from Dijsselbloem doesn't prick any of my balloons. That was done long ago after the Cyprus bailout when one of the Cypriot officials involved gave his version of the disgraceful events that had occurred.

I now deeply mistrust anything that emerges from the EZ FinMin group led by arch-balloon Dijsselbloem. And the anti-Greece propaganda machine is fully cranked up at the moment.

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

Interesting that the ECB reveals today that it has increased emergency liquidity assistance to Greece by €1.2bn. Coincidence or what?

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

It was Varoufakis who actually used the word posturing first, speaking in an interview with the BBC before taking up post, his word not mine.................

I don't share your view that this is merely about anti-Greek propoganda. I think Greece needs to take along hard look in the mirror and stop transferring blame for their own reckless inepitude to the Eurozone countries. Until they acknowledge the root cause of their problems they won't solve it.

Where I do agree with you is to continue with a 3rd bailout under the same terms as the first 2 would be lunacy. Real reform is needed not constant posturing and I sense the Eurozone feel that it is impossible to help those who refuse to help themselves.

BTW how would you describe threatening to flood Europe with refugee abnnd include Jihadi's amongst them if it isn't posturing?

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

I think not - rewarding good behavoir in the hope it will encourage them to keep doing the right thing :nod:

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

Secret plans are being drawn up to kick Greece out of the Eurozone

I wonder if there's any truth in this headline or whether it is simply playing Greece at its own game?

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

All reports on this seem to refer to a single Times article based on something said by a politician in Finland.

Moreover, I think kicking Greece out would give Varoufakis exactly what he wants (and I would argue needs). Syriza promised Greeks that they would get rid of the debt and stay in the euro; therefore, if they can provoke the Eurozone into expelling them, they can deliver on their debt elimination promise whilst the breaking of the promise to remain in the Euro can be blamed on those nasty 18 coutries that are conspiring together to bully poor little Greece - a perfect crime for Syriza methinks.

This, and the issue of undermining he irrevocable nature of any element of the "European Project", makes me doubt there is any substance behind the headline.

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

Exactly...Syriza's plan from the start.

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

I didn't say it was all about anti-Greek propaganda - what I meant was that some of the abrasive talk from them is probably occasioned by the fact that Greece has been the subject of a concerted propaganda campaign for a long while (and continues to be, more so than ever under Syriza).

The propaganda (by which I don't mean anything which criticises Greece's previous governance or suggests that it is to a large degree responsible for the position it found itself in in 2010) is unwarranted and unjust but rarely, if ever, criticised, as opposed to everything which any member of Syriza says, which is minutely examined for signs of offence.

With regard to transferring the blame, I don't see it that way. However, we ought to be able to separate what happened prior to 2010 and what has happened since very easily. Prior to 2010, Greece was largely responsible and post 2010 the troika have had control. Something has gone drastically wrong in the handling of the situation - the propaganda version of which is that Greece hasn't implemented reforms.

Totally agree about a 3rd bailout - it's obvious that Greece will need further support, though I fully expect the Greek government to engage in some haggling over the naming of that programme and I understand why. I hope the creditors don't indulge in argy-bargy to try and force them to accept what has become an unacceptable term.

As for Greece refusing to help itself, I disagree. It is they who have requested that they be allowed to help devise a programme acceptable to the creditors and they who have come up with suggestions for reform - and real reform it is. A proper chance to tackle some of the underlying issues which have plagued Greece during the past 40 years - and what a waste it will be if that chance is lost due to ideological differences about how the debt problem should be approached. Do they really want a return to Pasok or ND, who have failed so spectacularly and regularly?

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

I don't think so - Varoufakis has been entirely consistent on the matter of Eurozone membership. Although he has always been against currency union without political union and therefore against joining the euro in the first place, he has also always said that once a country has joined there can be no going back. Opting out (if it were even possible) or being forced out would amount to the same thing - as far as his own convictions go, an absolute no.

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

Coming soon to a kingdom near you. There may be another call on IMF funds soon.
Gilts strike as foreigners shun UK on gridlock fears - Telegraph
Very very worrying times. Not sure how much remains in the kitty for the RoW.

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

But this is surely the nub of the problem and it has nothing to do with propaganda but all to do with fact. The Greek government did NOT implement the reforms and the Troika did NOT have control of implementation.

The Troika controls the purse strings, the rest is down to the Greek government

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

He has indeed been consistent on saying he is committed to Eurozone: however, no one he is dealing with trusts him hence the speculation. His reneging on the agreed statement and subsequently on the signed agreement to extend the memorandum means that he is perceived to be dishonest even when he is being genuine. He is convinced ambiguity helps his negotiating position but it doesn't seem to be going well now does it?

the first thing that needs to grow is trust and that will be difficult given the previous posturing.

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

yep

Re: Road to a Grecian turn?
 

We'll have to agree to differ on this but the Greeks are not alone in thinking that they substituted the old agreement for a short-term interim agreement, which, nevertheless, still stuck by and large to the previous arrangements - I'm sure we all recall the talk of 70% etc - and which still hasn't been finalised.