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Road to a Grecian turn?

Road to a Grecian turn?

Old Jun 20th 2015, 11:36 am
  #481  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Good article by AEP in the Telegraph today.
Greek debt crisis is the Iraq War of finance - Telegraph

BTW Mike, I do not agree with your description of the Telegraph. More UKIPOgraph nowadays.
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Old Jun 20th 2015, 12:22 pm
  #482  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Just got my copy of the Economist. Worth a look just for this weeks cover!
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Old Jun 20th 2015, 2:53 pm
  #483  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike
BTW Mike, I do not agree with your description of the Telegraph. More UKIPOgraph nowadays.
You are probably right not read it for years
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Old Jun 20th 2015, 4:45 pm
  #484  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

I think this thread peaked at post #480 - both the quote and the reply should be read together for a true insight into the nature of the crisis
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Old Jun 21st 2015, 11:27 am
  #485  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Interesting articles in todays Sunday Times,
Uk holiday bookings to Greece havd collapsed with tour companies slashing prices.
Greeks are limited by some bznks to cash withdrawls of 5000euros day in what is desribedcas a walk on the banks not yet a run.
As the politicians fiddle Greece burns.
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Old Jun 21st 2015, 12:42 pm
  #486  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Bl**dy hell EMR that is generosity iteself.
In France and Spain we are limited to 300 Euros a day.
If we go in and talk nicely to the manager we can get more, but I cannot imagine being allowed to withdraw in cash a fraction of the €40,000 quoted
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Old Jun 21st 2015, 1:23 pm
  #487  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by bigglesworth
Bl**dy hell EMR that is generosity iteself.
In France and Spain we are limited to 300 Euros a day.
If we go in and talk nicely to the manager we can get more, but I cannot imagine being allowed to withdraw in cash a fraction of the €40,000 quoted
The article mentions an interview with one womanvwho went to her local bank to withdraw money and because of the queue turned away.
A bank employee then approached and basically said do it now before it us too late.
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Old Jun 21st 2015, 1:31 pm
  #488  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Originally Posted by bigglesworth
Bl**dy hell EMR that is generosity iteself.
In France and Spain we are limited to 300 Euros a day.
If we go in and talk nicely to the manager we can get more, but I cannot imagine being allowed to withdraw in cash a fraction of the €40,000 quoted
Banks are no longer safe places to keep large sums of money in many countries. goldcore com suggests that all banks located or based in least the following countries are at risk of so-called bail-ins in the medium term: Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Ireland, UK, USA, Japan. When you deposit money in a bank it is no longer legally your money, instead you become an unsecured creditor of the bank. Obviously, almost everyone needs a small amount of money in a bank to pay electricity bills and the like. Many people have only a very small amount of money, living week to week, so they have no such problems.
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Old Jun 21st 2015, 3:48 pm
  #489  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

We had a 1500 limit in Monaco and 500 elsewhere, including Spain. Our neighbors in Italy had their cards stolen while camping in Spain and had 5000 removed on each card from their account overnight, ie 10K left their account.
All depends what is agreed with the issuing bank. Btw. they did not get the money back. I had 1850 $US removed on my card in one day in Sanaa three months after I had left.... some 150$US over my limit too.. I did get this back however. Obviously some conniving in the Yemeni bank, but worrying..
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Old Jun 21st 2015, 3:56 pm
  #490  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Sad to say but as fast as the ECB puts money in, the Greeks take money out. It's an absurd situation and has to stop now.
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Old Jun 21st 2015, 4:44 pm
  #491  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

2 billion, that should last until midday Tuesday.We still have some Drachma from pre Euro times, Maybe we will be able to use them after all.
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Old Jun 21st 2015, 9:38 pm
  #492  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Assuming that was a serious suggestion, forget it. Even if Greece did return to the drachma it obviously wouldn't be with the old design on the notes.

But more importantly, Greece won't be leaving the eurozone. It's been stated on numerous occasions by all the big players on both sides. A deal is imminent.

The interesting question is how it'll be presented by the neoliberal establishment (by which I mean the Troika plus the governments of the eurozone plus the EU governments not belonging to the EZ plus the news outlets in all those countries plus the almost completely anti-government Greek news media. Not forgetting all those "politically neutral" market commentators). I guess they'll big up the crossing of red lines by the Greek government and try to push the idea that they "finally saw sense".

What'll really matter, however, is that this new deal will be accepted by this government as being implementable in terms of its stated targets being achievable. And achieve is what they'll try to do.
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Old Jun 22nd 2015, 5:37 am
  #493  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

I can't see it happening either. What happened when Argentina defaulted along with other S. American countries in the past? If they did default what would be the consequences for Europe? It strikes me that the Banks are into dirty games anyway. 94 Billion was given to Italian Banks recently, but loans given out by them actually fell by 13 Billion. they prefer to invest in gov bonds at home and abroad. Maybe some pain for them could be just the ticket.
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Old Jun 22nd 2015, 6:46 am
  #494  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Pain for whom? The Italians?

It's on it's way, I believe.
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Old Jun 22nd 2015, 8:37 am
  #495  
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Default Re: Road to a Grecian turn?

Just a thought here Eric, but there has been a lot of focus on "over-generous" Greek pensions. Whilst I understand they have been cut since these figures
File:Expenditure on pensions, 2012 (% of GDP) YB15.png - Statistics Explained
What about the others? Italy, France, Austria and Portugal look very high. I wonder what the five or ten year average pension to GDP ratio is?

A key difference of course is that Greek GDP by 2012 was already down some 30 odd percent. Therefore pensions as a percentage of GDP as a mathematical effect was bound to increase. It would appear therefore that as a percentage of GDP Greek pension did not stand out from the pack UNTIL the collapse in GDP. (Leaving aside the argument as to whether that peak of GDP in 2008 was real or froth).
I am not aware that French pensions have been cut though. How about Italian Mike? Do you know?

Last edited by bigglesworth; Jun 22nd 2015 at 8:38 am. Reason: spelling
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