jdr

You usually need the native language to work in foreign countries.

meauxna

OK, I don't get it yet. What kind of work do you imagine doing? If you could go to a webpage and see the description of your perfect job, what would it say?

I just wonder if you shouldn't go hit the streets in the place you WANT to live, and find the work there.
I think it's hard to find the job out of a whole continent.

Casa Santo Estevo

Reading his other posts he is a driving instructor and has some sort of plumbing qualification.

It will not be easy to find work in those two professions without some language skills.

meauxna

Thanks.. although my plumber usually just grunts, and charges $200/hour.

I suppose what I'm getting at is: is this a career-job sort of move, or do you really really want to move and there is a place you'd really really like to live in.
It may be better to approach the task that way.

Mikeyc

One thing that you might want to think about doing is the TEFL Certificate, it takes 4 weeks and you can do it in most European countries, - It’s Teaching English as a Foreign Language.

You don’t need experience and a lot of the TEFL courses will actually place you in a job in your chosen country once you have completed the certificate, you also only need to know English (but they usually give you local language lessons aswel).

I have a few friends who have moved to Germany and done this, they had no German at all, but did the 4 week course got placed in a job and after living in Germany from 6 months to a year they are pretty fluent in the language.

That’s one idea you can do to use as a stepping stone to get set up, here is one site for it www.tefl.com/ but a search for TEFL in google, will bring up a lot more, you can do the 4 week course in the UK or in another country.

Another option is that if your ok financially, just move to Germany and don’t work for a while, to give one time to pick up the language (once you are there it will be easier to learn the language). Also remember, as an EU Citizen your also entitled to welfare in any EU country for a certain amount of time (think it’s 8 months).

As for the cost of living in Germany, The east is usually cheaper than the west, and the taxes in the west are higher to support the east.

Also you might want to consider some evening courses learning German before you move, German is a lot easier to learn than people think and a few months should give you the basics.

If you look at other Countries like Sweden and Denmark, they give you free Swedish/Danish classes when you arrived.

The Netherlands speak a lot of English and I have had friends move there with no Dutch at all, they lived there for 3 years and still never learned Dutch, they never needed it and found it easy to get work.

Good luck what ever you do, just remember, don’t be put off by not knowing the language because once you arrived and are surrounded by it you will quickly pick it up, it will be hard at first but worth it in the end.

Mikey

Casa Santo Estevo

Interesting statement, but personally don’t see how they manage. For instance how do your friends mange the registration system? How do they complete the purchase or rental agreements for their housing? How do they manage things like banking, or utilities? Even the tax forms are in Dutch, how do they mange with that?
Your friends that work in The Netherlands, were they asked to work there, or do they have specific skills? The answers to these questions could make your points more relevant to the answer to the main question posted here.
MartinGB seems to want to work using only English in, as he puts it, an unskilled area. To work in those sorts of environments you have to have some sort of local language. He illustrates his point by writing about the Polish workers. They normal have a few words of the local language and they live in conditions that are not for the faint hearted.

Mikeyc

Ok, I have asked the one who live there for 3 years how she did all that.

Bank account: ABN AMBRO, The branch hand English speaking staff, no problem doing banking.
Accommodation: Got a flat share that was advertised in English by an English expat
Work: Unskilled, got a job in a recruitment agency that dealt with English speaking jobs
Any forms that was in Dutch was handled by work and friends who spoke Dutch
Was she asked to work there: No she went on a holiday and ended up staying?

After 3 years, she only knows a few words but could not have a conversation in Dutch; she never used it there as she never needed to.

Obviously Germany is different. But not speaking a language is no reason not to go somewhere, as you will pick it up once there (obviously not Dutch though, lol).

If MartinGB doesn’t want to actually learn another language once arriving in a new country, then he will find it hard, and the locals will probably find him ignorant. I mean if he plans to move to Germany and only speak English for good, then he has a problem. But if he is ready to move to a new country and plans to pick up the language, then he shouldn’t have a problem.

Not so true, my partner is Polish and we told his cousin to move to Ireland as there are lots of poles there. She moved there in 2005, when she arrived she didn’t know anyone (we had not arrived in Ireland yet), She spoke no English at all.

But yet she managed to find a place to live (don’t know what conditions your talking about, but the house she was in was a brand new 3 bed semi and she had her own room, with 2 other poles). She got a job - in a bank, she opened a bank account, and got all her tax sorted, and yet did not no a word of English. With so many Polish in Ireland they have Polish speaking people working in all these places to help them set up, I don’t know if you have been to Dublin recently, but there are adverts from Bank of Ireland around the city in Polish, telling people how to open an account with them.

When we arrived in 2006 to Ireland, she was pretty fluent in English; she has had no lessons, but learnt it from TV and everyday use. My partner left Poland when he was 1, so his native language is English, but his surname is obviously Polish, when living in Ireland if the bank ever called them they used to straight away start talking in Polish to him (he got very angry), but that’s how easy it is for people who don’t speak English.

So it is possible. Hard, but possible.

To make it easier for himself, the original poster should really decided which country he wants and start language lessons before he goes, just to get a head start.

Mike

Casa Santo Estevo

You make it all sound easy!
Yes speaking in English to open an account, but what if you want a credit card or a loan or other service…. it is all in Dutch. How do you know what you sign up for if you do not understand the language?
Your friend that has been living in The Netherlands and not bothering to learn anything of the language in our opinion is indefensible. Even just to be polite in a bar or a shop you need to know something of the local language. The Dutch, although a tolerant race, will get cheesed off if you do not integrate. However you seem to back this view up with your later statement about the locals will find him ignorant if he does not speak anything of Dutch… or German... or where ever he wants to live.
The quote you have taken about the Polish should be made clearer. The bit was about the generally unskilled worker. Reading the U.K. press they live in rented houses, in which they may take turns in sleeping in the same bed, there are many workers living in one house. Yes skilled workers are harder to exploit and with a good command of the local language they should be able to find something more bearable. We use the Polish as an example as MartinGB first used that.
Mmm it is hard to explain everything you mean on a forum, as the conversation is one way until someone else replies.
Still we wait for MartinGB to return with his views thoughts or questions. He has gone very silent.

Mikeyc

Oh I agree with you 100% that someone should defiantly learn the language the best they can, it’s polite, and required to integrate.

I’m making my move next year to France, although I speak basic French and a little German, I am still at University studying both, just to make sure I have enough when I get there. As 1, I know it will be necessary and 2, I personally think it’s rude and ignorant to just arrive in a country and no nothing of their language.

Only reason I recommended Netherlands to MartinGB was because he seems to want a place in Europe, but not UK or Ireland that will be ok with English for a while (again, I’m assuming he eventually wants to learn the local language). The Netherlands was the only place I could think of where I know someone who lived a good life without the language. Lol

If MartinGB wants to go somewhere without know the language, that’s fine, it would be hard but he could do it and he should be ok to get settled – but that’s only as long as he actually wants’ to learn the language and tries his best. Otherwise, it will be a wasted trip. That’s why the TEFL could be good as a stepping stone to help get settled in.

My opinion is that if anyone moves to a country, give them a chance, if they are not pretty much fluent in local language within 6 months to a year of being there then they should be sent back.

In regards to the Poles, yes I have heard some living like that, but not all, my partners cousin was also unskilled (was a cleaner back in Poland). But as MartinGB is comparing himself to them, he also has to remember that they have fully started learning English as soon as they arrived, and after a few months are pretty good, so if he goes to Germany with the same attitude of the Poles in the UK/Ireland then he should be fine, hard and difficult but possible.

Yep, he’s gone silent, maybe he moved to Germany? lol

Mikey

Celtic Princess

Why? We have been in this country for a year now. The country begged my husband to come as they were so desperate for his specialist skills. He works bloody hard and pays a mountain in taxes. He doesn't need the language to do his job or to contribute to this community, so why send him back?

Casa Santo Estevo

See this is what we men that forums are not a real place to have such a discussion, what a person writes seems to get taken the wrong way.
CP there are some things you need to make clearer with your posting, it is not as clear as mud!

Mikeyc

I don’t want to start an argument, but ok, your husband might not need the language, but do you not think he should learn it? I mean you’re in that country, do you not think it’s ignorant and rude just to ignore their language?

I mean, I get really frustrated when someone comes here to Australia and after living here for quite a long time cannot speak English, I don’t care how skilful they are or what they contribute, they should at least learn the language.

These same people also only live in communities and stay in their own groups, for years speaking their language and not English, which then causes even more problems. If your husband doesn’t speak the language how does he even socialise? Or does he just stay in groups of British people?

Mikey

Celtic Princess

Because everyone here speaks English too. I'm learning the language but find it very difficult to talk to the locals using it because as soon as they know I'm English they change to English so they can practise. Their desire to speak English with me is far higher than their desire for me to speak their lingo.

I run a scout pack, in English, and the local parents love it as their kid's English abilities are coming on in leaps and bounds since I took over.

Maybe I would agree with you more if English were a minority language here. But it's not, it's more like a second language. For example, my husband is a professor and at the level he teaches at (phd) all lectures are in English, regardless of the nationality of the lecturer or the students. And all the friends we have made are natives, apart from me coming on-line every now and again, we have no contact with native English speakers. (Apart from the weekly phone call from Mother of course.)

So if someone can communicate perfectly well with the locals, can operate fully in the society, works, pays taxes and lives in a country where the natives are not in least bit bothered by your inability to speak their language and love the fact that they get to speak yours, why should that person be considered ignorant for not learning a language they do not need?

Mikeyc

OK, sorry I see your point, I can see your in Sweden, where yes once they find out you speak English they jump on it as they love to practice.

My Aunt lives in Sweden, and although fluent in Swedish (she’s been there for 20 years), when she talk’s, they still reply to her in English.

Maybe that’s also the reason it’s easy in Netherlands with just English.

Mikey

Katamoungdapidgeons

If you live near somehere that runs them you could consider doing a TEFL teaching course then you could earn better money and not speaking the language might not be a problem.
I've been looking at a post "19yr old looking for a place to move" which might help.Good Luck