Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

Hi all, long time reader and first time poster. I've always been a law abiding citizen as have the rest of my family so I never thought I'd be asking this, but my younger brother (who has semi-severe learning difficulties) has recently been arrested and soon to be convicted on burglary charges due to a mix up with his job. Long story short but he worked for a scrap collection company, collected the wrong items from a couple of porches and was seen on CCTV, next thing we knew police were collecting him during dinner and seizing things from his room. Due to his mental state they have said repeatedly they won't be harsh with sentencing, but have to follow the law to the letter blah blah, blatantly ticking boxes and not caring about the effect on him or us as a family unit. I digress.

He has always wanted to live abroad in a warmer country, but from what I've read in recent weeks it looks like he won't be able to do so due to his imminent criminal record. Am I correct in thinking this? I know you aren't all immigration lawyers and cannot give me an absolute answer, but I was just wondering if there is some common knowledge on countries that UK citizens can move to regardless of a criminal record. We will be taking him on holiday all being well later in the year to get his mind off things as the poor lad has been a wreck ever since and has refused to leave the house due to his fear of breaking a law without knowing it, and doesn't really understand the situation at all, so any feedback or help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all for reading.

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

Its not a question that has a straight answer I'm afraid. Different countries have different rules, and in many places the answer varies depending on the offence, the sentence, how long ago, is it a sole offence or part of a pattern......
Without knowing what countries he would want to move to - or even visit - there is no way to give an answer.

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

I understand, sorry for the vagueness! He has always wanted to move to America, which we know will be impossible now, but I had suggested to him countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy (where some of our family were originally from), and he wasn't opposed to the idea which is basically him saying yes due to his conditions. I would no doubt be moving with him as I wouldn't like the idea of him being abroad and alone, and I can continue my online business wherever I am, but from what I've read it appears every country wants a criminal record check which I'm assuming would make him ineligible to move?

It's most likely that he will want to go to a warmer climate in Europe, but I just cannot seem to find any info on countries that would be accepting to someone moving with a record. I'm just doing preliminary research for him in the meantime and will encourage him to save up over the next five to ten years (which I will do also) before moving, and I understand laws will change over then and could be more restrictive or less depending on situations and circumstances, but was curious as to the experiences of others in this matter. Thank you for the feedback regardless, I appreciate it.

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

Sounds to me like he needs expert legal advice and a robust defence now to nip this in the bud if possible. This will cost money!

Once he has a criminal record it is going to make his life much harder.

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

We are paying for a solicitor and hopefully a barrister if we can get it to trial to fight his case, but from what we've been told it looks like he will come out of this with some form of record regardless due to the circumstances and over zealous officers involved who had the cheek to say he was taking advantage of his own mental state to offend. This is a young man who hasn't got the mental faculties to plan things beyond a few hours but they told us they believed he was lying from the outset, despite the fact he has known medical conditions and is legally classed as a vulnerable adult. That riled me up to no end!

Also, due to his condition, apparently the first time he was interviewed (without a responsible adult) he was told that he was going to prison regardless so he has resigned himself to a fate that may or may not happen, but it's incredibly hard to change his perspective and that concerns me regarding the trial as I feel he would probably make things worse when directly questioned. For example, if you said to him "you planned this, didn't you?" he would respond affirmatively due to the way the question is formed. His mind doesn't seem to accept that he can respond differently, if that makes sense.

Sorry for the life story there, it's just been heavily weighing on my mind as he doesn't know what to do himself and I seem to be the only one in the family majorly concerned about his future and plans. I want him to be able to live freely or at least have some sense of freedom about himself, so that's why I'm asking really, I feel it'd give him some more peace of mind and something to look forward to.

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

I would hope his lawyer pushed aggressively to have all that information be thrown out as inadmissible in court. On the basis of his mental capacity the police had no business interviewing him until a responsible adult and/or lawyer had been involved.

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

That is exactly what I said to his solicitor! The response was underwhelming in the sense that they responded along the lines of "well what's said and done is said and done" and implied that regardless of how badly it was all handled, he still agreed to be interviewed. I'm hoping though that when it goes to court, the barrister will be aggressive and fight all the "facts" brought up in interview. I have no idea what was actually said but how it's been relayed to me from the officers involved definitely shows a complete lack of care and a twisting of the truth to make a mentally ill person appear malicious. They will rue the day they decided to make him a target, of that I am sure! Thank you for your response by the way, your words echo my thoughts exactly.

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

You're welcome. .... Have you considered bringing the matter up with your local MP, even ahead of any hearing in court? This is the sort of abuse of the criminal justice process matter that may well interest them. :unsure:

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

I hadn't considered it to be honest, but now you've mentioned it, that's a very good idea! I was thinking of petitioning against the officers involved who have clearly taken advantage of him and his mental state, and perhaps even attempting to get some coverage on the tv regarding the leading officers, but the local MP route is probably more likely to get some traction. Thank you for the suggestion Pulaski!

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

You're welcome. I hope you can sort something out for your brother. :fingerscrossed:

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

Thank you, sincerely! People like yourself give me faith in humanity again after having it dashed completely by awful representatives of authority!

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

Hi SortingHat and welcome to the forum. Sorry it has to be under such distressing circumstances for you and I'll second everything Pulaski has said so far and wish you the best of luck with your case.

If the worst does come to the worst, though, I think you'll find that European Union countries generally have a reasonably relaxed attitude to criminal records for minor offences once the conviction is spent. You mentioned Portugal specifically above, which is where I live - at the moment, for example (and for as long as the UK is still a member of the EU, presumably) to the best of my knowledge and memory, no questions at all about criminal background are asked of any UK citizen who wishes to reside here at either the initial or post 5 year stage. There is a check requested if one applies for citizenship but citizenship isn't necessary in order to have permission to reside, obviously.

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

The son of a friend of mine was jailed in the UK for violence against another person.
He was sentenced to 18 months and served nine before release. (I think that these figures are correct.)
He subsequently (within 12 months of being in prison) went to work in the USA for one year.
The refusal of a visa depends on the crime and the length of any prison sentence.

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

In the case of the US, the visa issue is the maximum sentence the crime could have attracted, not the sentence actually given.

Re: Moving abroad with a criminal record in the UK.
 

Hi Red Eric, thank you for your message! It is very much appreciated. Yes Portugal may be an option and I'd be more than happy to move there with my brother as we also have some family history there, and times before when we've visited, we've absolutely loved the place. May I ask how long ago you made the move? If worst does indeed come to worst, it may be his preferred option as I've recently read how hard it is to move to Italy and sustain one's self without solid work which is dwindling in the more expat-friendly areas. I really enjoyed the Portuguese culture and I think he would benefit from the change in scenery and climate.

Pulaski, I had always thought that was the case, and unfortunately with my brother the 'crimes' they're accusing him of can supposedly attract a 14 year maximum sentence if tried on indictment but due to his situation I'm hoping they will just try him summarily and that reduces the maximum sentence significantly. I do have a vague hope that at the embassy should we ever attempt to secure him a visa for US travels, we should be able to demonstrate that this is all a misunderstanding involving someone who cannot make the same kinds of decisions as you or I, and hope they take some pity!