Croatia

Old Jan 7th 2011, 2:25 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Croatia

Originally Posted by gipsy
The majority of English that I know here in Spain do not make an effort, do not learn the language and do expect the world to speak English....I am Sorry !
They go to the English shop, eat/drink in English bars, ....
I, on the other hand, learned Spanish before I went to live there and no, English is not my mothertongue either...

That may be so in your area, but not here ... where abouts are you? Torrevieja
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Old Jan 7th 2011, 4:22 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Croatia

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
That may be so in your area, but not here ... where abouts are you? Torrevieja
Who would really like to live day in day out in Torrevieja ? Not me....No, I am talking about Alicante, El Campello, Jijona, San Juan, Busot, etc...
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Old Jan 8th 2011, 3:04 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Croatia

I have to say that in order to succesfully integrate into the society one should learn the language no matter how many people there speak in his native language, Croatia being no exception. Considering moving abroad solely on the language matter, other Mediterranean countries might be better choice than Croatia or Slovenia, Italian (most probably the easiest language in the whole world), Spanish or even French(!) being easier than South Slavic languages. Greek is around equally hard and Maltese and Turkish definitely harder. On the other hand there are facilities for foreigners wishing to learn the lingoes, better language schools in Croatia giving also good courses of Croatian for foreigners. Prices vary however, from 250E for 70 hours over three months where I live, to 600E for 220 hours over one semester in Zagreb at University (Faculty of Philosophy). Also a lot of helpful materials are published and available (being so since end of WWII, before that English was not very interesting over here), and they are ranging from simple conversation booklets to sophisticated dicitionaries, either general language ones or specifically "technical" ones covering most of occupations and activities.

Last edited by TheRusvaj; Jan 8th 2011 at 3:15 pm.
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Old Jan 9th 2011, 2:44 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Croatia

As the one who actually speaks , reads and writes the CRO-lingo :
you've gotta be joking , Rusvaj !
( or : not all there ? )
The benefits of learning such a difficult language , with all it's dialects ( IS there actually a CROatian language , for the foreigner who can hardly fathom Dalmatinski , Istarski , Zagorski , Kajkavski , Shtokavski , Chakavski and what not else ? ) and that incredible grammar ( the Yanks called it : barbed wire ) are : what exxxactly , please , Sire ?
We have a sort of similar problem in Belgium : 6 ( affluent ) milion ( i.e. 2/3 of population ) now speak Flemish/Dutch , which ( except the other NL Dutch , noone cares for , as a language ) ergo , almost all of them speak fluent English , too ;
problem solved ( almost ! ) ...so , now ?
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Old Jan 9th 2011, 7:01 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Croatia

Benefits are more or less succesful integration in the country you choose to live in, as I stated before (whatever be the odd reasons for wishing to do that anywhere in the world ). The thread is about Croatia anyway, and altough I don't belive there will be a rush of expats coming here (or there? whatever...) in foreseeable time, for the rare ones still wishing to do so, especially for longer period than just couple of years, learning the language is quite a good option. About difficulty of doing that, you should know better I suppose, as you did it yourself.... reaching real fluency can hardly be expected anyway, but good-to-very-good command given right effort can be achieved in reasonable time. As I stated in previuos post, solely on the language matter, Italy, Spain and France are surely better choice. About dialects, you gotta be kiddin me, Spain has numerous local ones not even considering Catalan, Galego and Basque language and Italian is so heavily dialected that using book language you can hardly understand anyone south of Rome if they don't wish you so, not to speak about Siculi and Sardengo languages... so whats your point my friend? That one should not consider London as a living place if not fluent in cockney or whatever is spoken there!!?!
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Old Jan 9th 2011, 11:59 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Croatia

I do agree with you , in that it is most unlikely that'd there be a rush of expats coming to live in Croatia ...although I know of half-dozen , mostly Brits , struggling on there , currently .
What with the labour and enterprise laws as they currently are , then the taxation , the unbelievable bureaucracy and the costs connected to it , the ever-present corruption , then the ( much too-high ) cost of living , the incredibly overpriced Kuna "currency" ( well , not really a currency , since all the bank loans are secured in Swiss Francs or Euros anyway , so then : what kind of expensive money are we talking about ? ) and frequently the attitude of the locals ( stuck in the 70's communism and expecting handouts on every step of the way ) ...
not to worry : "love conquers everything" ( someone sung ) !
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Old Jan 10th 2011, 11:04 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Croatia

Well, if not for real expats (actually coming to live in the place) then surely there was a sort of rush by potential property owners in last nine or ten years for real estates in places like Dubrovnik or Istra region or Komiza on island of Vis etc., Many of really good spots are already bought by foreigners (them paying for overpriced value? evaluation surely depends on lot of factors, only the time can tell...) It had a short term positive effect, but long terms it's just pushing us into more problems, I've seen too good what similar thing did to places in Spain, Italy and Greece... Most of actual expats I know or am acquainted with are somewhere your generation, coming here during too much villained Yugoslavian times from countries like Czechoslovakia, Germany, Netherlands, France and found themselves OH's here and raised families (and yes, they are not numerous, but still most of those I know are in my home town which BTW has a relatively small population of only 50k people...)... Others, younger generation, are mostly ones working for Croatian subsidiaries of international companies and for what I know their experiences vary, depending where they are originally from and what they expected from the country in the first place... About stuff you have asked/commented in the last post, yes, surely we have some more or less serious issues over here (then again who dosen't, Belgium perhaps? : I have read in FT that you are currently establishing a world record in actual time not having a government ) However, I can not emphasize enough that one potentially interested in coming to live in Croatia should first come to visit several times, especially off the tourist season, and see things for himself... Now, to make it short and more readable, and if you are interested in furthering this subject, shall we go topic by topic? I'm more than willing to discuss anything you have in mind, after some ten years of personally (firsthand) comparing so-called "West" and "Balkans" I think that I don't have many illusions about neither of them....

Last edited by TheRusvaj; Jan 10th 2011 at 11:44 am.
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Old Jan 11th 2011, 9:34 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Croatia

Actually , I don't anymore have that many axes to grind ;
neither do I think the Forum would be much amused with the sad tales of my many disappointments , with both the West and the Balkans ( and some others , on different continents ) .
And as for Belgium , today : it's all strictly doom and gloom , knowing that the present is far worse than the recent past and that the future is most likely to continue this trend , so : expecting worse to come yet ( unless you are an EUrocrat , or a diplomat , in either case : hugely overpaid , living tax-free and basking in incredible fringe benefits ) .
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Old Jan 11th 2011, 11:59 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Croatia

My wife has expressed an interest in going to Croatia on holiday
I have no idea what bought that on ..... is it a good holiday destination?
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Old Jan 11th 2011, 12:02 pm
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Default Re: Croatia

Well if for CNN and other media and also tourist industry fairs/events it is one of top ten destinations to go in the whole world, now if you can be more specific in what would you like to experience there and when would you like to go at all, maybe I could be of some help, with some hints perhaps?

Last edited by TheRusvaj; Jan 11th 2011 at 12:45 pm.
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Old Jan 11th 2011, 12:09 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Croatia

@ Mitzy :
Would you care to define , what "good" might mean to you and to you wife ; to start with ( fairly ) safe , from crime : it really is ;
cheap : it isn't ( apples for apples ) ;
the grub and booze can be great , or mediocre , or dismal , if it's your first time and you don't know the local customs , language and the rest...
- are you likely to drive ( as majority of tourists there do )
- or fly ? ( N.B. any notion of the trains ? : no go , IMHO ! )
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Old Jan 11th 2011, 12:09 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Croatia

Originally Posted by TheRusvaj
Well if for CNN and other media and also tourist industry fairs/events it is one of top ten destinations to go in the whole world, now if you can be more specific in what you would like to experience there there and when to go at all, maybe I could be of some help, with some hints perhaps?
Not sure, we just like different places. Not beach holidays. Like exploring old towns and countryside, and sampling the local cuisine

She also wants to go to Vietnam and Cambodia ... think she's having a late life crisis
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Old Jan 11th 2011, 12:57 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Croatia

So does my mrs. !

Others may have different opinions but , to my knowledge and experiences , Dalmatian coast is very overrated , as are many of the islands ;
sure , there always is Dubrovnik , Split , Hvar , Brach , Loshinj...Istria is interesting but really expensive ( good grub , though , if you know the stuff ) ;
just how you might manage this without driving a lot , ferries etc . I can't quite fathom !
There's Plitvice , a really nice place to spend a day or a few , then there's the underrated north : Varazhdin , Samobor , Chakovec , places towards Hungarian or Slovenian borders ;
the capital ( Zagreb ) is another issue : some say they like it !
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Old Jan 11th 2011, 1:38 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Croatia

@Mitzy
Ray has made some good points on this one... I also don't recommend trains, altough there are some realtively new passenger ones (Italian made ), they are visually appealing, but actually quite uncomfortable, also not feasible taking a train along the coast anyway... About time of year to come, from my POV somewhere in september is the best, it's not crowdy as it is during the season, and it is still warm enough if you want to hop into the sea, it is still sunny and there is always a freshing breeze clearing the air and the sky and making colours more appealing, actually it was always my favourite time of year to wander around myself....

Driving is a good option, offcourse in meaning that you'll be able to see much more and not depend on public transportation which is good-to-excellent in some places and almost non-existent in other less populated ones... but beware, except in Rijeka region local drivers may seem a bit more offensive to say it mildly, Ray51 is more harsh on this one, but from my experience we are still better than Italians and Greeks, especially Italians, so it's not like you would have to drive the rally over here...

I somehow always presume that people are more interested in coastal regions than continental, but there is also a lot of stuff to see and do there... About coastal regions, might want to check on islands, I have to warn you for eventual planing of itinerary that they are most usually not interconnected mutually by ferries but only through ports on mainland. Generaly speaking and based on brief hints you gave, Dubrovnik or Istra are always a good choice because you'll have it all there without having to travel to far from locality to locality, from all the history you'll want to explore, gastronomy, even countryside... These two are also most expensive and most crowded during main season, and I definitely don't recommend Dubrovnik in July and August if you wish to explore the old town thoroughly and there is a lot to see. It would be a waste of effort as it is overcrowded then, particulary with cruiser passengers. Offcourse there is always another option of taking a skippered charter sailboat (which can be really affordable if you pick out the right company) and spending each day on other locality... actually lot of options exist, now it only depends what you are up to.... Dalamtian coast has places and places and prior informing is advisable, for example where I live when back at home (Kastela near Split), way too overbuilt and far less attractive but still some tourists prefer it as they can easily move to Split and Trogir (UNESCO cities) and visit ruins of Salona (Greek and Roman city) and mountains and backcountry... so altough not as attractive for having beach holidays right in front of the accomodation you take, it has some advantages.. same with other places, it all depends what are you looking for... and once again, you definitely won't fail in going to Dubrovnik or Istra just beware of main season.
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Old Feb 24th 2011, 9:01 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Croatia

Ray, I am really surprised at all the negativity.
I don't really want to reopen the debate but I pretty much agree with Rusvaj (great nick btw) on most, if not all accounts but even though I could just let everything you said slide and not give it much thought, I do have to ask you kindly to not speak a bad word about Zgb.

Last edited by sslik2go; Feb 24th 2011 at 10:52 am. Reason: typo
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