Mitzyboy

Hi Bodge

Yes I live here full time and we're 80 kms South of Valencia. The temperatures during the day last winter in the coldest month (Jan/Feb iirc) were normally around 10 - 12. Obviously it drops at night, but for instance we never have a frost here. I was able to go in our unheated pool until mid October this year.

We do live up the side of a hill at about 300 mtrs though, and the temperatures here are usually 2 deg lower than down in the town. presently at 1 pm its just 20 degrees

In Benidorm they were sunbathing on the beaches on Christmas day apparantly ... thats about 50 kms South of us.

BODGE71

That sounds fantastic. If i could afford it, i'd buy a place in southern Spain and spend the winter months there as i love hiking and mountain biking, and the terrain that i've seen in photo's of Southern look ideal for both.

I'd better start saving up (after i build my house in Monty first though).

Mitzyboy

Maybe start the British Expats Holiday house swap club

BODGE71

that's a pretty good idea actually. Im my particular case it'd be a couple of years before the house would be built. Unlike Spain, there are no mortgages in Montenegro at the moment (i've heard that situation is supposed to be changing in the fairly near future) so i've got to save up the cash to pay for it!

I'm sure it's going to be a popular place to visit in the next few years. It's probably at the same stage as what Spain was 30 years ago. It's still very quiet in most parts of the country apart from the two party towns of BUdva and Herceg Novi. Apart from that , it's very peaceful and relaxing - great for putting your feet up and doing nothing.

TanyaN

Just a word of warning re architects in Herceg Novi. It wasn't until I was onto my 5th one that I was comfortable with his competency and technical skill.

Firstly, establish that they actually have been working in the area for quite a while and are familiar with the terrain. Also, that they are willing to liaise with urbanisation on your behalf and help out with the paperwork. Lastly, get them to show you recent building examples of their work.

If they don't want to have anything to do with the council or do not go into enough technical detail and start focusing on tiles or bathroom fittings instead, steer clear.

mia-mia

Can anyone update of what happened to the property prices since November2007?
Considering buying something coastal in Montenegro and turn it into a holiday rental.
Hope the prices have not equated with Croatian ones..
Ta

TanyaN

Demand has decreased due to a couple of reasons:

1. Prices have gone through the roof so you definitely won't get value for money.

2. Property ownership laws for foreigners are in limbo. The government is trying to open it up but there is strong opposition from all sides, even their own party which is turning people off in buying.

mia-mia

Thanks for an update, Tanya.
Judging by the RE web sites there is still room to move, i.e.coastal properties are still cheaper than in nabouiring Croatia (correct me if I'm wrong). Pending law doesnt sound too good anyway...I'm late for a property boom, as usual though.
Out of Adriatic countries it's only Albania left now.

TanyaN

Personally I think you can get better value for money in Croatia but it's also difficult for a foreigner to buy. It's also risky because of the clean paperwork issue and I've heard a lot of people only discover their problems when they decide to sell.

The prices in Montenegro have been inflated by the influx of Russians on a massive scale. They're absolutely everywhere, cash buyers, and pay the asking price if they decide it's what they really want.

A friend of mine who runs a property business went to Albania on a recce and came back very unimpressed. She said she could never recommend it to clients for a never ending list of reasons.

Ray51

Well , there are Russians buying ( or : trying to ) all over Croatian coast , too ; even on some islands which are inacccessible for most of the year !
- madness prevails !
which results in locals dreaming up Hollywood-style astronomic prices , for many a revolting abortion of 50's-60's ugly anti-esthetic architectural disasters ;
- if you look up some websites , you can find homes "advertised" at asking prices they couldn't fetch in Surrey or Berks even ( nor in Spain/France/BeNeLux/Switzerland etc ) ...
And the legality of ownership/documentation , as well as of any building/planning permits ...is the matter for yet another thread !

mia-mia

Looked at more properties online last night. Some still seam quite cheap to me(probably expensive comparing to the prices 2-3 years ago though), but online photos and descriptions dont give a good understanding of what they are, they could be structually in falling apart with services need to be replaces etc.
And some are , yes, reeeeaaaaly expensive, i.e. 200K euros 1-bed apartments in Budva with no land component.
Thanks to oil and Moscow RE insane prices that make Moscovites think it's cheap/reasonable.

Looks like I shall forget about Crna Gora, and study a map of Europe once again.
Ray, Tanya, you seam like knowing the Balkan region quite well,what 's your opinion on Serbia? Do you think after the mess around creating second Albania settles the Serbs would take their loss and move on, join EU one day etc? Serbia doesnt have the coast line unfortunately but I heard the land is dirt cheap there.

Ray51

Serbia , these years , is a very touchy subject ,
primarily in the sense that ( since 90's wars , in punishment for which the Yanks took Kosovo away recently ) everything about it is so emotionally overloaded , so that any comment/s - ne'er you mind : fair , informed , helpful , whatever - could easily be terribly misunderstood and then proceed towards causing tons and myriads of slanging matches and insults ...just look at what ( once was ) the South African section of this same forae ...
But , nevertheless , herewith a few brief updates :
a ) the Swedish Ambassador stated last week that he was hopeful that Serbia might be invited to join the EU by 2015 ...now , whether one sees that as a good thing , or not ? A matter for yet another thread ?
b ) Cost of Living is higher there , than in Croatia , which itself is more expensive than Slovenia and some other new EU-member-states ;
wages ( outside politics and some public services ) are a bad joke ,
unemployment is high , there's lots of guns and all other armaments around ,
the economy is in bad state , corruption and bribery rife , law and order : suspect , as is the justice system ; the ( anti-EU ) prime minister Koshtunica just announced that will resign on Monday and then there might be parliamentary elections in May , with who-knows-what outcome....
- interested Russians , ever-lurking in the background , are seen by most : as Serbia's only friends in the whole wide world ;
- plus : the Serbs currently occupying large parts of Bosnia might try seccession and/or other political moves , which would cause further instability in the Balkans...
That was my 2 EUrocents' worth , for this quiet Brussels morning ...

TanyaN

I agree with all of the above except for:

"the Serbs currently occupying large parts of Bosnia"

Those people you're referring to are Bosnians who happen to have Serbian ethnicity. Just like there are Bosnians who happen to have Croatian ethnicity.

Ray51

Either way , it does get helluva complicated , some might even say : boring ;
as far as I can tell , they ( " Bosnians of Serb ethnicity " ) "proclaimed" their own "Republika Srpska" ( N.B. as opposed to Croats , who never tried any such thing/s ) and have recently threatened to push for internationally-recognised independence of same ...
...hehehe , if only people would realise the fundamentals there ...;
- all this , at the same time when Bosnia/Herzegovina is progressing precisely towards nowhere , politically , economically and otherwise , testing the patience of international community ...and what next , once the limits of (un)reasonable behaviour have been exceeded ?
More senseless havoc , in the Balkans ?
Not much progress , I'm afraid , since those days , when Archduke Ferdinand got shot in Sarajevo ( and you can ask the Croats , too , many of them now struggling to return upwards to those standards of living they much complained about in late 80's , under ex-Yugoslavia...)

TanyaN

You're right Balkan politics is very complicated and everyone wants their slice of the pie. The Croatians have a psuedo republic of their own in Hercegovina even though it's not officially declared as such. They get automatic Croatian citizenship and even citizens in Croatia proper complain that Bosnian Croatians actually determine the outcome of their elections.

It all comes down to the fact that you can't force people to feel loyal and patriotic to a country just because the international community decides they should. Republika Srpska was created under the Dayton Accord because a third of the population doesn't identify with a Muslim government or state.

There is a bit of a Yugonostalgic wave hitting the Balkans amongst older people in particular. Now that the hard reality of actually having to work to maintain a decent standard of living instead of living off foreign credit has hit them, it's everyone else's fault except their own.