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-   Cyprus (https://britishexpats.com/forum/cyprus-117/)
-   -   Missing money (https://britishexpats.com/forum/cyprus-117/missing-money-949722/)

UKMS Nov 10th 2023 6:39 am

Re: Missing money
 

Originally Posted by Finknottle (Post 13225703)
Sounds right up the Daily Mail's street.

That would have been my suggestion :) Alternatively if there is an English newspaper/online in Cyprus.


Peter Lodge Nov 10th 2023 6:01 pm

Re: Missing money
 

Originally Posted by UKMS (Post 13225746)
That would have been my suggestion :) Alternatively if there is an English newspaper/online in Cyprus.

We are definitely going to look into both options, thank you for your advice.

Peter Lodge Nov 11th 2023 6:38 pm

Re: Missing money
 

Originally Posted by UKMS (Post 13225671)
Firstly you have my deepest sympathy on this.

A couple of suggestions.

If you are running up against a brick wall in Cyprus at the moment then I would tackle it again in the UK, the recieving bank is in the UK and therefore the final part of the crime has happened there, dont be fobbed off with the jurisdication excuse because crimes of this nature are frequently global and they are still investigated. Out of interest which Police agency did you try to report it to ?

Have you considered pursuing through the small claims process in Cyprus ? https://www.debitura.com/small-claim...diction/Cyprus

Possibly consider engaging with a dual qualified solicitor in the UK for advice.

Have you spoken with anyone from the press in the UK ?

What was your original engagement with the solicitor for and what were the terms for the transfer instruction (that you originally gave) ?

We looked into the small claims court in Cyprus, bearing in mind this Lawyer is extremely clever and crafty, if we lost the case because of whatever reason we would have to pay his legal costs which he would run up through the roof, it is not the same as England, we have found that the legal system in Cyprus is very unpredictable, an English person against a Cypriot Lawyer, although without a doubt anyone would know who was in the wrong, we have trouble trusting anyone in Cyprus now.

Johnboyuk Mar 16th 2024 4:24 am

Re: Missing money
 
Use a Cypriot lawyer based in the UK. There are quite a few. This is just one.

https://www.chambers.law/?gad_source...MaArWDEALw_wcB

Johnboyuk Mar 16th 2024 5:01 am

Re: Missing money
 
Ignore the above, these people may be more use:


https://www.judicaregroup.com/site/c...ers-in-cyprus/

Pulaski Mar 16th 2024 6:17 am

Re: Missing money
 
I only just found this thread, but I have a few thoughts on some of the posts.

Originally Posted by EU.flag (Post 13224698)
OP is wasting time chasing solicitor. This is clearly bank fraud, so issue must be chased with bank.
Post doesnt make it clear where money was sent from, lawyer's holding account or OP own account. Either way, issue must be chased through sending bank.

The bank did nothing wrong, it transferred money from the solicitor's account per the solicitor's instructions.

Originally Posted by philat98 (Post 13224704)
The lawyer shouldn't have sent the money to an account with a different name without checking first. How did the fraudsters know that the money would be transferred? Either from the lawyer or the bank. Setting lawyers on lawyers costs another€50k.

The "different name" rule doesn't apply for a solicitor's account. I agree that it sounds like it was an inside job, but might not be the solicitor/ solicitors office. Who else knew about the money/ transaction?

Originally Posted by Peter Lodge (Post 13224762)
Neither of the banks will talk to us because we are not their customers, and he knows full well that we can’t afford to take him to court, he has even refused to pay back his fee for making our money disappear.

This is undoubtedly true, no bank will correspond or negotiate with someone who is not a customer, even a lawyer or a professional with an interest in the matter is unlikely to get any useful information from the banks.

Originally Posted by Finknottle (Post 13224945)
As regards Lloyds in London, how about the UK banking ombudsman - at least they might persuade the bank to talk to you.

Again, without a customer relationship to the account where the funds were sent, the banking ombudsman isn't going to get involved.

Originally Posted by UKMS (Post 13225671)
.... If you are running up against a brick wall in Cyprus at the moment then I would tackle it again in the UK, the recieving bank is in the UK and therefore the final part of the crime has happened there, dont be fobbed off with the jurisdication excuse because crimes of this nature are frequently global and they are still investigated. ....

Billions of pounds, euros and dollars flow through London every day, and there is very little liklihood of the funds being found there. In fact is highly likely (I would say "near certain") that the funds were moved on from the account they were credited to within 24 hours of being credited in London, and moved out of the UK and beyond the reach of UK or EU courts.

Originally Posted by Rosemary (Post 13225462)
Darn it. It is so obviously a fraudulent act by the lawyer so there really must be a way of making him pay for his crime. ....

While the solicitor could be involved directly in the fraud, it is far more likely that he was negligent/ duped in taking the email of new details at face value without checking back directly to his client. Lawyers can be utter sharks, but I am sceptical that many of them are just straight-up theives.

Originally Posted by Peter Lodge (Post 13225460)
The Cypriot Ombudsman ruled that we were not to blame at all, and it was a contract between the Lawyer and the Bank, but they wouldn’t take it any further 😳

That sounds reasonable, and consistent with my various comments above, which of course doesn't help you.

So, my thoughts are that there was a criminal fraud in Cyprus, that the solicitor while reckless in taking the email instructions and using them to transfer the money, was likely another victim of the fraud, not a particpant, and that the most likely route to any progress at all is to persuade someone to investigate the fraud. Whether that would be the police in Cyprus or a solicitor and private investigator, I'm not sure, but the key to understanding what happened is getting access to the email instructions, and finding out who sent the email, and where they got the information to send the email - how did they know that the money was there, waiting to be transferred?

Do you know anything about the account the money was sent to in London? Bank, name, account number, etc.? Despite all the comments above (mine and others), there is a small chance that you, or a lawyer acting on your behalf, might be able to "shake something loose" if you have the name and account number on the account, and send letters to the bank in the UK addressed to "the Fraud department" and "the Compliance Officer". I am not at all optimistic that you will get much of a response, and even less optimistic that it will lead to you getting your money back, but given your situation, it is something I would at least try as you don't have much to lose at this point.

Johnboyuk Mar 16th 2024 7:11 am

Re: Missing money
 
Pulaski, Fair comment. My only reservation would be that if you look at the state of the real estate sector in Cyprus, there are around 100,000 that have still not received their title deeds. Accusations have been made about collusion between the government, judiciary, banks, and legal profession. Who knows? The Cyprus Property News is full of fraudulent cases. It looks like a minefield to me.

https://www.news.cyprus-property-buy...ds/id=00167469

Pulaski Mar 16th 2024 7:37 am

Re: Missing money
 

Originally Posted by Johnboyuk (Post 13244934)
Pulaski, Fair comment. My only reservation would be that if you look at the state of the real estate sector in Cyprus, there are around 100,000 that have still not received their title deeds. Accusations have been made about collusion between the government, judiciary, banks, and legal profession. Who knows? The Cyprus Property News is full of fraudulent cases. ....

Oh, I know that corruption is a major problem in Cyprus, and it is an issue that my employer is aware of and monitors, and as such affects my work.

The international corruption rating agency "Transparency.org" scores Cyprus as "53" on a 100 scale, along side Georgia, Grenada, and Rwanda, so some fine company there (Denmark is top, scoring 90, Somalia is bottom, scoring 11). At least Cyprus is rated above Saudi Arabia (52) and Malta (51). :rolleyes:

Peter Lodge Apr 1st 2024 6:33 pm

Re: Missing money
 
Just to update everybody, since our Larnaca Solicitor transferred our life's savings to someone else's account we have spent nearly 3 years going round in circles, we have now heard back from his insurance company saying that he is not insured for cyber crime, even though he personally walked to the Bank of Cyprus in Larnaca, personally filled out the paying in slip and transferred the money in person, no buttons were pushed at any time, they are hiding behind the small print because apparently he received an email which he thought was from us changing the bank details, yet never once did he check by a phone call or text, if this is not incompetence and negligence I don't know what is, yet the Cypriot Law Society says he has done nothing wrong in their opinion.

Johnboyuk Aug 5th 2024 8:32 pm

Re: Missing money
 
This may be after the fact and will not help the OP, but, to possibly help others, why use a solicitor to move cash? These days, with companies such as Wise and now Revolut, it is possible to move money relatively easy around the World yourself and retain almost total control. Even in the UK, I have often found solicitors to be careless and inefficient and often delegate these tasks to an inexperienced office junior unless they have another agenda. They certainly need to be monitored. I understand that each case is different and there may have been a justifiable reason for using a solicitor but I would avoid it like the plague if I could.

Peter Lodge Aug 6th 2024 1:30 am

Re: Missing money
 
We were advised by our Cypriot Solicitor to have the money put into his bank account, obviously a mistake but easy to trust someone and then realise not the best idea.

Johnboyuk Aug 6th 2024 6:12 pm

Re: Missing money
 
There are Cypriot solicitors operating in the UK who are under UK regulations. These may be a better bet. The paper trail certainly starts at the sending bank.

This is just one of a few that can be found by an Internet search. At the very least, they will be able to tell you how to proceed.

https://healys.com/about-us

Johnboyuk Aug 6th 2024 6:31 pm

Re: Missing money
 

Originally Posted by Johnboyuk (Post 13268130)
There are Cypriot solicitors operating in the UK who are under UK regulations. These may be a better bet. The paper trail certainly starts at the sending bank.

This is just one of a few that can be found by an Internet search. At the very least, they will be able to tell you how to proceed.

https://healys.com/about-us

I would also post in the 'forum' on this site. There are many people who have had legal problems and the guy who hosts the site (Nigel Haworth) is well versed on Cypriot law.

https://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers.com/


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