What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

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Old Oct 18th 2014, 4:46 pm
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Default What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

Hello everybody,
My wife and I have been living in Germany for the last 10 months. I am a British Citizen and she has a German residency card. I have been working all these months as self employed and on December we are planning to move to the UK under the Surinder Singh.
My wife is Israeli so we don't need an EEA (since Israelis don't need a visa to get into the UK) and when we will arrive in the UK we will apply for the EEA2 (this was also confirmed by SOLVIT).
My question is what do we need to say at the entrance to the UK when we arrive?
What are the exact words? Also, do we need to bring with us to the entrance all of the papers that prove that we lived in Germany?
We really don't know what to expect at the entrance to the UK.
Can they just say "sorry, we don't care, go back to Germany"?
We are trying to see what to do, and if we should do it a few weeks before we leave our flat in Germany, as we don't want to stay without a home...

Any suggestions?
Does somebody know?
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Old Oct 18th 2014, 5:17 pm
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

Don't understand your comment about not needing EEA because your wife does not need a visa. The two are not dependent on one another.

Why would you not apply for the EEA permit before moving to the UK? This is what the UK expects you to do in order to enter the UK with your non EU wife.

Its easy to get and free and with it you won't have any hassle.
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Old Oct 18th 2014, 5:57 pm
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl
Don't understand your comment about not needing EEA because your wife does not need a visa. The two are not dependent on one another.

Why would you not apply for the EEA permit before moving to the UK? This is what the UK expects you to do in order to enter the UK with your non EU wife.

Its easy to get and free and with it you won't have any hassle.
I wanted to apply and got an answer from SOLVIT:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice.

We understand that your query relates to having to prove whether you fall under the scope of application of the Surinder Singh case, in relation to your wife as the spouse of a UK citizen returning to the UK, where you live together in Germany, and where you have both resided in Germany for approximately 9 months.

Your wife is an Israeli citizen and she now hold a Residence Card issued by the German authorities by virtue of Article 10 Directive 2004/38 (as the spouse of an EU citizen).

Subject to the comments made below with respect to the application of Article 5 paragraph 4 Directive 2004/38, which is transposed under UK law, your wife is advised to process a UK entry visa, under the UK transposition of the Surinder Singh caselaw.

Also note that we focus in this post on the admission into the UK, not residence. Once in the UK, we invite you to send us a follow up query concerning residence in the UK under the Surinder Singh caselaw.

Note also that the UK does not recognize the application of the visa exemption under article 5 paragraph 2 Directive 2004/38, given that you are a UK citizen. The family members of UK citizen cannot rely on the visa exemption under the provision cited above, according to the 2006 EEA Regulations. This is the case even though by way of exception, the German residence card held by your spouse could be used by way of reliance upon the visa exemption by virtue of Article 5 paragraph 2.

1. Entry in the UK without a UK Visa: Article 5 paragraph 4 Directive 2004/38.

As an Israeli citizen, your wife is not required under UK law to process an entry visa, where she intends to visit the UK.

Under EU law, your wife may be entitled to rely on Regulation 11 of the EEA 2006 Regulations, which precludes UK immigration officers to deny your wife entry in the UK, provided she is able to demonstrate that she falls under the scope of EU free movement rules (see below for more details).

Regulation 11 of the EEA Regulation transposes Article 5 paragraph 4 of Directive 2004/38 which provides:

4. Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence.

The evidence that your wife is required to produce in this case is as follows:

She is married to a UK citizen (marriage certificate, and ID card or passport for your or certified copy of the same),
That you are both returning to the UK, immediately following a period of residence in Germany
That you have cohabited in the other Member State in question, prior to your return to the UK,
That you have exercised your rights of residence in the other Member State in question, by engaging in an economic activity as a self employed person,
And
That you have shifted your centre of life from the UK to Germany, by reference to the amount of time spent in Germany, by reference to the fact that your principal place of residence is in Germany, and by reference to the measure of integration within German society.

Where your wife is able to prove each and every point listed above, your wife is entitled to seek admission into the UK under Regulation 11 of the EEA 2006 Regulations notwithstanding the lack of an EEA family permit (Regulation 11 transposes the terms of Article 5 paragraph 4 Directive 2004/38);

As a result of which the UK Immigration Officer has limited discretion to refuse you entry, by virtue of Article 5 paragraph 4 Directive 2004/38 (as transposed under Regulation 11 of the EEA 2006 Regulations).

Given the facts and circumstances related in your post, we are not able to conclusively assess to what extent you may be able to satisfy the requirements for admission into the UK by virtue of Regulation 9 of the 2006 EEA Regulations, albeit we infer that you are in a position to prove the same, given the length of residence in Germany.

Directive 2004/38 has been implemented under UK law by virtue of the 2006 EEA Regulations:

The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006
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Old Oct 18th 2014, 7:26 pm
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

My interpretation of the document having read it quickly:

Your wife does not need an entry visa to visit the UK. (she's not visiting, she's entering to remain)

The UK does not recognise the visa exemption of Article 5 paragraph 4 of Directive 2004/38 (which allows free movement of EU citizens and their dependents). The UK requires an EEA family permit.

Where the person does not have the necessary travel documents to enter the UK you can use other ID, marriage certificate, proof of you working in Germany etc etc.

With other documentation and proof (other than the EEA family permit) your wife is entitled to seek admission to the UK.

The Border official has limited discretion to refuse you entry - but does have some discretion.

Which takes me back to my first question - why go through the hassle when you can get the family permit?
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Old Oct 18th 2014, 7:54 pm
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

post 4 gave you the response, just the same as post 11 in the following thread where you asked the same question back on July 16, 2014.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/citiz.../#post11302425

Get the family permit in Germany before leaving to go to the UK, unless there is an issue that you are aware of or not telling us?

Last edited by not2old; Oct 18th 2014 at 7:59 pm.
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Old Oct 18th 2014, 8:03 pm
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

I was trying to refrain from the possibility that they will refuse the EEA but I guess that you are right...
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Old Oct 18th 2014, 8:07 pm
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

Originally Posted by not2old
post 4 gave you the response, just the same as post 11 in the following thread where you asked the same question back on July 16, 2014.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/citiz.../#post11302425

Get the family permit in Germany before leaving to go to the UK, unless there is an issue that you are aware of or not telling us?
I am trying to deal with them as little as possible because they refused the spouse visa I applied to almost 2 years ago.
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Old Oct 18th 2014, 8:41 pm
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

Originally Posted by emilyscage
I am trying to deal with them as little as possible because they refused the spouse visa I applied to almost 2 years ago.
Applying for a spouse visa for the UK for non EU citizen has nothing to do with applying for an EEA family permit. Very different rules.

Personally I'd rather apply for the family permit. IF (and it's a bit IF) it were to be refused, then I would imagine you would not get through the border official. So better to apply before you go.
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Old Oct 18th 2014, 8:58 pm
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

Something twigged my memory about a Code 1A stamp (limited leave to remain for 6 months) which some non EU citizens with EU citizen spouses have used to enter the UK when they do not have the family permit.

Having briefly read up on it, the ones who have tried this have had to produce a lot of documentation, been questioned for some time, "demanded their rights" but apart from one couple who wrote about their experience, have been given the stamp.

Again, I'd rather have the EEA family permit beforehand.
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Old Oct 18th 2014, 9:30 pm
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

Originally Posted by emilyscage
I was trying to refrain from the possibility that they will refuse the EEA but I guess that you are right...
Why do you think it would be refused?

S
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Old Oct 19th 2014, 3:51 am
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

Originally Posted by Shirtback
Why do you think it would be refused?

S
I really don't know with them anymore, we go a long back, since 8 years ago when my wife (we were not married yet) came to visit me and got refused to leave entry, and I had to leave England to be with her (we got married 7 years ago).
Every time we come to visit she gets detained for 2 hours...
We applied for a spouse visa and got refused, we really go back and I really don't trust this system so I am trying to avoid it as much as possible, I just want to go back home...
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Old Oct 19th 2014, 7:11 am
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

Originally Posted by emilyscage
We applied for a spouse visa and got refused, we really go back and I really don't trust this system so I am trying to avoid it as much as possible, I just want to go back home...
Given that she has a refusal on record, all the more reason to apply for the EEA family permit before you travel. This AVOIDS hassle, rather than creating hassle.
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Old Oct 19th 2014, 8:18 am
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

Originally Posted by Vadio
Given that she has a refusal on record, all the more reason to apply for the EEA family permit before you travel. This AVOIDS hassle, rather than creating hassle.
Yes, will do.
Thank you.
May i ask what are the common reasons they refuse for an EEA usually?
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Old Oct 19th 2014, 10:55 am
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

The most common reasons for a Family Permit refusal seem to be.

1.. That you havn't moved the center of your life to your host country.
2.. That you have used the "Freedom of movement Directive to circumvent the UK immigration laws.

Both these resons are illigal but that dosn't stop a UKVI caseworker from using them.

You have been in Germany for 10 months and working all that time and your wife has 5 years residency... More than enough time in your host country to return to UK under Singh.

The advice that you've been given is sound.. apply for a family permit. Its free of charge and you can apply as many times as you like.
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Old Oct 19th 2014, 10:57 am
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Default Re: What should I say at the entrance - Surinder Singh

thank you so much!!!!
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