Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Old Feb 5th 2016, 7:10 pm
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Default Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Hello-

My husband and I are hoping to move to the UK from the US next year in order satisfy the 3 year residency requirement for our 2 children (aged 7 and 11) to register for British citizenship other than by descent under S.3(5) BNA 1981. I am a British (by Descent) passport holder, being born to a British father outside of the UK. I have lived in the UK but not for 3 consecutive years.

I would love to hear from anyone who has completed this process. I specifically have questions about the necessary visas and length of application process:

* What are the different visa options for allowing our family to stay in the UK during this 3 year period? I assume pursuing this avenue of citizenship does not in itself confer a valid visa? We would have the necessary funds to show that we are self-sufficient. My husband hopes to temporarily transfer his job to the UK which should allow us that visa avenue but am wondering if there are other options as well.

*Is there a long lag time between applying (after residing the 3 years) and the decision, which would necessitate living much more than the 3 years in the UK? My husband is hoping to be seconded to the UK for at least 2 years, and negotiate work at his US job on a flex basis for the 3rd year... but a drawn out application process could jeopardize this plan. ( I presume you have to remain in the UK while the application is being processed??)

I apologize for the lengthy questions (and thanks to those who have read this far!) and hope a few folks on the forum have gone through this process and have helpful information/ advice.

Patty
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Old Feb 7th 2016, 5:37 am
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

I hope someone can correct me but I thought you yourself who is a British by descent must have lived in the UK for 3 consecutive years and registered as a British citizen otherwise than by descent in order to be able to pass your citizenship to your children (assuming they both were born in the US)? Is your husband a UK citizen or a US citizen?

By the way I have a daughter who is a British by descent too.
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Old Feb 7th 2016, 3:04 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Originally Posted by chinooko
Hello-

My husband and I are hoping to move to the UK from the US next year in order satisfy the 3 year residency requirement for our 2 children (aged 7 and 11) to register for British citizenship other than by descent under S.3(5) BNA 1981. I am a British (by Descent) passport holder, being born to a British father outside of the UK. I have lived in the UK but not for 3 consecutive years.

I would love to hear from anyone who has completed this process. I specifically have questions about the necessary visas and length of application process:

* What are the different visa options for allowing our family to stay in the UK during this 3 year period? I assume pursuing this avenue of citizenship does not in itself confer a valid visa? We would have the necessary funds to show that we are self-sufficient. My husband hopes to temporarily transfer his job to the UK which should allow us that visa avenue but am wondering if there are other options as well.
Your children would be entitled to apply for ILE (Indefinite Leave to Enter) from the US as you are a British citizen. This would allow them to reside indefinitely in the UK. Your husband would be more difficult as either you would have to sponsor him for a spouse visa or he would need to apply independently for a work visa of some kind. Being transferred to the UK on a Tier 2 (Intra-company Transfer) visa would probably be the easiest option but any time spent in the UK on this visa doesn't count towards ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain) and thus would prevent him from naturalising as a British citizen after five years whereas a spouse visa would. Something to bear in mind if you were willing to spend the extra time required for your husband to gain British citizenship.

*Is there a long lag time between applying (after residing the 3 years) and the decision, which would necessitate living much more than the 3 years in the UK? My husband is hoping to be seconded to the UK for at least 2 years, and negotiate work at his US job on a flex basis for the 3rd year... but a drawn out application process could jeopardize this plan. ( I presume you have to remain in the UK while the application is being processed??)
Processing times can vary but count on three to six months as a rule of thumb. The residency requirements need to be fulfilled at the time of application not the time of decision so in theory you could return to the US after lodging their applications but it would be easier to remain in the UK until you receive their certificates and apply for their British passports.

I apologize for the lengthy questions (and thanks to those who have read this far!) and hope a few folks on the forum have gone through this process and have helpful information/ advice.

Patty
A question of my own: what was your grandfather's employment at the time that your father was born?

Originally Posted by ruri
I hope someone can correct me but I thought you yourself who is a British by descent must have lived in the UK for 3 consecutive years and registered as a British citizen otherwise than by descent in order to be able to pass your citizenship to your children (assuming they both were born in the US)? Is your husband a UK citizen or a US citizen?
If the application is being made under S.3(2) BNA 1981 then you are correct. However the OP wants to register her children under S.3(5) BNA 1981 which can be done after the British by descent parent resides with their child in the UK for at least three years and an application for registration is lodged before the child turn 18. S.3(5) is preferably as it conveys British citizenship otherwise than by descent meaning the next generation born overseas will be automatically British whereas under S.3(2) no further generations born overseas can be registered.
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Old Feb 7th 2016, 4:26 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Thanks Brit in Paris. Very helpful information.

You commented on an avenue for my husband to also obtain citizenship. I am sure I read somewhere that after the 3 year residency in the UK he as well as the children would be eligible through the S.3 (5) application? Is this incorrect? And, the type of visa that allows him in the UK may affect this eligibility? I will keep looking for the reference I saw, and research the ILE/ILR regs.


Originally Posted by BritInParis
A question of my own: what was your grandfather's employment at the time that your father was born?
My grandfather was the managing director of the tea department at a Liverpool tea importing firm.

Ruri, my husband is a US citizen.
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Old Feb 7th 2016, 5:17 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Originally Posted by chinooko
Thanks Brit in Paris. Very helpful information.

You commented on an avenue for my husband to also obtain citizenship. I am sure I read somewhere that after the 3 year residency in the UK he as well as the children would be eligible through the S.3 (5) application? Is this incorrect? And, the type of visa that allows him in the UK may affect this eligibility? I will keep looking for the reference I saw, and research the ILE/ILR regs.
Your husband would need to reside in the UK for five years in order to achieve ILR after which he would be eligible to naturalise as a British citizen under S.6(2) BNA 1981. Previously the spouses of British citizens could apply to naturalise after only three years of residence. Technically this is still the case but since they must also be 'free of immigration time restrictions' on the date of application and ILR now takes five years to achieve then effectively it has become a five year process.

S.3 BNA 1981 only applies to the registration of children as British citizens and thus wouldn't apply to your husband.

My grandfather was the managing director of the tea department at a Liverpool tea importing firm.
That would rule out the possibility that your children are already British citizens by descent then.

Another question: does your husband have any recent European ancestry - parents, grandparents or great-grandparents born in Europe? This may allow him to allow for a EU/EEA passport that would allow him to live and work in the UK without a visa.
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Old Feb 7th 2016, 6:41 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Thanks again BritInParis.

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Your husband would need to reside in the UK for five years in order to achieve ILR after which he would be eligible to naturalise as a British citizen under S.6(2) BNA 1981.
Hmmm, what I saw about a spouse being eligible after the 3 years did not reference ILR. Perhaps it quoted the previous regulation without noting that in practice this is no longer possible.

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Another question: does your husband have any recent European ancestry - parents, grandparents or great-grandparents born in Europe? This may allow him to allow for a EU/EEA passport that would allow him to live and work in the UK without a visa.
While my husband believes that his ancestors are European I think this would be a hard avenue to pursue due to lack of family documents, etc.

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Your husband would be more difficult as either you would have to sponsor him for a spouse visa or he would need to apply independently for a work visa of some kind.
Is the spouse visa difficult to obtain?
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Old Feb 7th 2016, 6:50 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Originally Posted by chinooko
Thanks again BritInParis.

Hmmm, what I saw about a spouse being eligible after the 3 years did not reference ILR. Perhaps it quoted the previous regulation without noting that in practice this is no longer possible.
It is still technically possible, for instance if the spouse is an Irish citizen, holds Right of Abode in the UK or the British citizen spouse is employed overseas in Crown service, but not in the vast majority of cases.

While my husband believes that his ancestors are European I think this would be a hard avenue to pursue due to lack of family documents, etc.
An Irish or Italian grandparent are the easiest options but if the ancestry goes back further or is undocumented then it's more difficult.

Is the spouse visa difficult to obtain?
The most common stumbling block is the financial requirements.

Spouse Immigration-UK : British Expat Wiki
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Old Feb 8th 2016, 4:30 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Thanks again BritInParis.

Originally Posted by BritInParis
The most common stumbling block is the financial requirements.
We have sufficient savings at the moment (having just sold my inherited home) so hopefully that will remain a viable option. I will be reading through the many posts on the forum about spouse visa, settlement visa, etc. and no doubt will return with more questions.

A big concern at the moment is the accommodation requirement as it seems we should secure a permanent address before applying. Would hate to rent a place for a year and then have the application rejected.
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Old Feb 8th 2016, 6:30 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Ack!!! I have been reading so much information on this site and others that my head is spinning...and clarity has evolved into confusion.

Re our intention to move from the US to the UK, I understand from BritInParis and others that my 2 dependent children are eligible for ILE visas due to my being a British (by descent) citizen/ passport holder.

The best route to get my US husband a visa to relocate to the UK seems to be via the spouse visa (same as a settlement visa?) with using our savings as meeting the financial requirement (approximately min of $113,000).

*If my husband applies for a spouse visa, the amount of savings required for approval of this visa takes into account our 2 children, but they are not covered in this visa application? (i.e., this is not a 'family' settlement visa?)

*the children apply for ILE visas? I assume that once granted these visas, the children have a special vignette in their US passport that allows them entry into the UK- without restriction? Do you they need to travel to the UK by a certain time period? I think I read somewhere that the ILE would expire upon expiration of the passport? I am just trying to work out how would we coordinate the timing of these different visas and moving to the UK.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
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Old Feb 8th 2016, 8:02 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Originally Posted by chinooko
Ack!!! I have been reading so much information on this site and others that my head is spinning...and clarity has evolved into confusion.

Re our intention to move from the US to the UK, I understand from BritInParis and others that my 2 dependent children are eligible for ILE visas due to my being a British (by descent) citizen/ passport holder.

The best route to get my US husband a visa to relocate to the UK seems to be via the spouse visa (same as a settlement visa?) with using our savings as meeting the financial requirement (approximately min of $113,000).

*If my husband applies for a spouse visa, the amount of savings required for approval of this visa takes into account our 2 children, but they are not covered in this visa application? (i.e., this is not a 'family' settlement visa?)
As your children are not British citizen you will have to meet the financial requirement for a spouse plus two dependent children. Each visa is a separate application - you cannot apply for your whole family at the same time.

*the children apply for ILE visas? I assume that once granted these visas, the children have a special vignette in their US passport that allows them entry into the UK- without restriction? Do you they need to travel to the UK by a certain time period? I think I read somewhere that the ILE would expire upon expiration of the passport? I am just trying to work out how would we coordinate the timing of these different visas and moving to the UK.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
You should apply for settlement visas for each child (Settlement->Settlement->Child on the drop down menu). As the children of a British citizen they should then be granted ILE rather than a child visa. In addition to completing and printing off the online application form for each child you will also need to complete Appendix 1 and Form SU07. Note that you need to be already resident in the UK for your children to be granted ILE so you should plan ahead to return first or at least for your husband and children to return to the US to apply for their visas after you set up home.

When you apply for the visas you'll need to indicate your proposed initial entry date. This can be no more than three months in advance of your application date. Once the visas are granted you'll have 30 days to enter the UK after this date or the date the visa is granted, whichever is later. They will then need to collect their Biometric Residence Permits from a Post Office.
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Old Feb 8th 2016, 8:26 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Thank you BritInParis!! Makes more sense now.

I will spend some time reading through the applications.

Thanks again for your time and information.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 7:02 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Have you considered living in Ireland for 5 years and getting your children Irish citizenship instead?

Irish citizenship is superior to British in several ways:

Can be passed down forever by descent. None of this "citizenship by descent" discrimination.

Your spouse can join you in the UK with no income requirements. Because you're covered by EU law which treats spouses better than UK law. Don't ask me why the UK discriminates against its own citizens here...

You basically have all the advantages of British citizenship because of the Common Travel Area. Even if the UK leaves the EU, Irish citizens will most likely still be able to live, work and vote in the UK.

Given all those advantages - why be British when you can be Irish?
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Old Feb 10th 2016, 2:31 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Thanks for your comments, LuckyIrish! I agree moving to Ireland would be a viable option, and has greater benefits. However, we have family and friends in England so that route makes the most sense.....but, easy access to great Irish stout is almost a worthy substitute
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Old Feb 10th 2016, 2:49 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Note that you need to be already resident in the UK for your children to be granted ILE so you should plan ahead to return first or at least for your husband and children to return to the US to apply for their visas after you set up home.
BritInParis, I have seen in several posts that British citizens are considered 'settled' once they enter the UK and that they really don't need to be living in the UK for the spouse visa application, but could enter at the same time. Does this not apply in my case because it would be settlement visas for dependent children? I do see that Form SU07/12 requires that I show proof of residency such as a bill, etc. Has the requirement changed?

The logistics of this may prove prohibitive as it would not be possible for my husband to work full time and care for 2 young children for several months while I am in England. I have seen that the priority visa service could take a little as 15 days but, if residency is required, I would need some time to have bills in my name, etc. I assume this means that the accommodation requirement of the settlement visa application could not be satisfied by staying temporarily with friends? (providing letter, property inspection showing space, etc.)

Thanks again for the help.

Last edited by chinooko; Feb 10th 2016 at 2:57 pm. Reason: correct type of visa processing
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Old Feb 10th 2016, 3:04 pm
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Default Re: Visa & tips re pursuing S.3 (5) BNA citizenship

Originally Posted by chinooko
BritInParis, I have seen in several posts that British citizens are considered 'settled' once they enter the UK and that they really don't need to be living in the UK for the spouse visa application, but could enter at the same time. Does this not apply in my case because it would be settlement visas for dependent children? I do see that Form SU07/12 requires that I show proof of residency such as a bill, etc. Has the requirement changed?

The logistics of this may prove prohibitive as it would not be possible for my husband to work full time and care for 2 young children for several months while I am in England. I have seen that the priority visa service could take a little as 15 days but, if residency is required, I would need some time to have bills in my name, etc. I assume this means that the accommodation requirement of the settlement visa application could not be satisfied by staying temporarily with friends? (providing letter, property inspection showing space, etc.)

Thanks again for the help.
If getting the spouse visa viasavings, you would all be able to move together, you are consideered as 'settled' as soon as you arrive, so if they arrive at the same time they are still classed as joining a 'settled' person. No need for you to arrive before, usually that only happns when people are going the work salary related route. Once in the UK your husband would be able to work immediately, and if you were to stay long enough for everyone to be naturalised, his income would also count towards the financial requirements at the second stage.
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