traininvain

Hi All, I would be grateful if someone could confirm whether VAF4A Appendix 2 still needs to be completed if you are applying for a spouse visa while living in the UK?

By way of background, my fiance will be submitting a spouse visa application in early April after we have married. She is from the US and I am British.

She is currently in the UK on a 3 year student visa which has been curtailed as she stopped studying late last year. Her curtailment period ends in April.

One other question please, if we submit the spouse visa application before her curtailment period expires in April will this mean that she can stay in the UK until the spouse visa application is decided?

Many thanks

BritInParis

Yes and yes.

traininvain

Thanks BritInParis.

Another question if you would be so kind to help, we are collating the proof of genuine and subsisting relationship information. So far we are planning on providing the following.

Marriage certificate (will have in April 2018)
iMessages from arranging our first date etc including photos
What's app messages - since we met, thousands of messages ongoing
What's app call log since November (circa 30 calls as we live together / message a lot)
Facebook - photos, engagement announcement, status updates etc
Several photos together from second date onward
Utility / gas bill in both of our names
Cards, love letters / notes etc
Kennel club puppy registration certificate addressed to both of us


By way of background, we will be getting married next month. We intend to submit a UK spouse visa soon thereafter.

We met in the UK in November 2017. Moved in together in December 2017.

Just wondering whether this would provide enough evidence?

We are also in the process of opening a joint bank account and the council tax bill will hopefully be in both our names before we submit the application. Is this likely to help?

Many thanks once again.

traininvain

One more question if anyone can help?

My job title has been ‘Director’ since late 2016. But I’m not listed with companies house as one of the official directors of the limited company.

This is because I’m a director for internal purposes but not an equity stake holder in the business. Hopefully this will change later in the year but for now that is my position.

One of the questions on the online application asks if I can provide proof that I am director of a limited company.

Is this going to confuse the person determining my spouse’s application as my job title is ‘Director’ but I’m not listed on the companies house official register of directors with the company for whom I work?

BritInParis

Normally that would be overkill but given the relatively short amount of time you have been in a relationship then that is probably advisable. Was this an arranged marriage?

That would depend on how you are planning to meet the financial requirements. If it's by salaried income under Category A then it's less of an issue. If it's by cash savings under Category D then it's irrelevant.

traininvain

Thanks. It’s not an arranged marriage.

In your opinion, do you feel the application is likely to fail due to our relatively short relationship even with all of the above info including joint bank account and council tax bill in both our names?

We are meeting the financial requirements under Category A. We have my last six months’ payslips to verify this.

We also have a bank account statement for the last six months (on one sheet of paper) showing all of the payslip sums entering my account. This has been stamped in branch and has my name, address and printed in branch on the statement.

My work contract will be provided with the application along with a letter from one of my co-directors confirming job title, current annual salary, former salary, bonus and verifying the payslips.

I’m unsure whether to send a P60 as the 2017/18 copy is unlikely to be ready in time.

In terms of accommodation, we have the land registry title entry for my flat together with mortgage statement and a plan of the flat.

Thanks for all your help, it is very much appreciated.

BritInParis

Unless there are cultural reasons as to why you married so quickly after meeting for the first time then that is a real risk. Without knowing more about your circumstances or relationship I cannot advise further.

That sounds very solid.

traininvain

Thanks again. Very worried now

By way of background, we met in November 2017 and our wedding date is early April 2018.

We have / will have documentary evidence of our relationship from the start in November 2017 up until the date we apply in April 2018 after our wedding.

This will include marriage licence, photographs, iMessages, What’sApp messages / call logs, joint utility bill from British Gas, Kennel Club certificate for our puppy and details of our joint bank account.

Some of iMessages / What'sApp messages correlate with the photos we will be providing and we have collated them in a chronological order showing the timeline of our relationship.

Granted this is all fairly quick but our relationship has moved at this pace in terms of seeing each other nearly every day from the moment we met, moving in together after a few weeks etc.

Ultimately, I understand the onus will be on us to prove a genuine and subsisting relationship. The above information will prove that we have been in daily contact since meeting, lived together since December 2017, married in April 2018 and have joint bills / bank accounts for the future.

Hopefully this will demonstrate a genuine and subsisting relationship. But if you feel otherwise then I would be very grateful for any advice on how we could strengthen the application?

BritInParis

There's nothing wrong the evidence you will be providing but in the end you are still in a situation where you have met and married within six months. That won't be considered 'normal' if there aren't religious or cultural reasons for doing so. Your fiancée is a US citizen with a Tier 4 student visa which is about to expire. Effectively you are marrying so soon into your relationship so that she can remain in the UK. The crunch point is whether you are marrying only so that she can stay in the UK or so that you can continue to stay together in the UK. The former is a marriage of convenience, the latter is not.

traininvain

Noted and thanks for your honest assessment.

Hopefully the fact we have joint utility bills, bank account, a puppy etc will demonstrate that we intend to stay together in the UK if a visa is granted.

Not sure how else we can show that it is not simply a marriage of convenience. Might receipts for the engagement ring, wedding etc help?

Just trying to understand how the Home Office will arrive at the judgment as to whether it is a marriage of convenience or not.

BritInParis

Yep, that will all help. Wedding photos showing you both with friends and family as well.

That would be a judgement call by your ECO. It will basically boil down to gut feeling. You are not an obvious example of a marriage convenience, e.g. Pakistani man marrying Lithuanian girl 15 years his junior when neither can speak English, but you will still need to make a strong case. I would recommend that you both write separate covering letters explaining the development of your relationship and addressing head-on why you are marrying so quickly. These don't need to be very long, a maximum of two sides of A4 each, but I suspect they will go a long way in helping to make your case.

traininvain

Many thanks for all your help.

traininvain

Just wondering if this might help as a few paragraphs in my sponsor letter?

Moving into 2018 our relationship continued to blossom with the addition of our puppy and I decided in February 2018 to propose marriage to my spouse.

I understand three months may appear a short-term relationship to a third party and you might question the timing of the decision to propose with my wife's leave to remain in the UK expiring on 16th April 2018. However, I can assure you this was not a snap decision made in haste.

It was apparent from the very early stages of our relationship that marriage was a matter of ‘when’ as opposed to ‘if’. The time my wife and I have spent together was more than sufficient to know that we intend to spend the rest of our life’s together. I made the decision to propose marriage in full knowledge of our shared feelings. I hope the evidence provided to document our relationship (including messages, notes, cards etc) will help to allay any fears you may have.

Furthermore, as you may note from the receipts provided, a great deal of expense went into the engagement ring, wedding reception etc. I have also enclosed a copy of my wedding speech which provides further insight into the type of loving relationship that my wife and I share.

I am delighted to confirm that my spouse accepted my marriage proposal in February 2018 and we started to plan the wedding soon thereafter. We married at XXX Register Office on April 2018. Please find enclosed a copy of our marriage certificate.

BritInParis

That looks pretty good.

traininvain

Thanks for your feedback. I have added to my original effort as follows.

We also have letters of support from family members including my brother who is a solicitor of 10 years standing and my father who is an OBE. They have spent a lot of time with my fiance and I. They are more than happy to vouch that we have a genuine and subsisting relationship.

Moving into 2018 our relationship continued to blossom following the addition of our puppy and I decided that I was going to propose marriage to my partner. I am 33 years old and I have been in relationships prior to meeting my spouse with the longest extending to three years. I can categorically say that none of my previous relationship experiences have come close to the feelings I have for my spouse. I am very fortunate to have met her and I feel blessed every day that we spend together.

I understand that three months may appear a short-term relationship to a third party and you might question the timing of the decision to propose with my wife's leave to remain in the UK expiring in April 2018. However, I can assure you this was not a snap decision made in haste. My decision to propose was made prior to learning of my wife's visa curtailment, after spending enough time in one another’s company to know that marriage was an inevitable outcome due to the feelings we share for one another.

It was apparent from the very early stages of our relationship that marriage was a matter of ‘when’ as opposed to ‘if’. The time my spouse and I have spent together was more than sufficient to know that we intend to spend the rest of our lives together as husband and wife. We care deeply for each other and we continue to spend as much time together as possible.

I made the decision to propose marriage in full knowledge of our mutual feelings. I hope the evidence provided to document our relationship (including messages, notes, cards etc) will help to allay any fears that you may have.

Furthermore, as you may note from the receipts provided, a great deal of expense went into the engagement ring, wedding reception etc. This expense was in order to ensure that it was a day to remember for all involved. I have also enclosed a copy of my wedding speech which provides further insight into the type of loving relationship that my wife and I share.

As you will be aware by now, xxx accepted my marriage proposal in February 2018 and we started to plan the wedding immediately. We married at xxx Register Office on x April 2018 with the reception taking place at xxx. Many of our family members and close friends attended including my wife's sister and best friend who both travelled from the US to join the celebrations. Please find enclosed a copy of our marriage certificate.