charlie1971

Newbie to the forum.. Here is my situation.

I came over to the UK in 2014 with my wife and daughter on a Canadian passport and Tier 2 Visa sponsored by my company. This Visa expires in April and I still work for the same company.

In the interim, I have applied and received my Irish passport as I am an Irish citizen. I now hold two passports; Canadian and Irish. The Irish passport allows me to continue to work in the UK without a Tier 2 Visa extension.

The problem I have is what I need to do with my wife and daughter's current status to allow them to remain indefinitely. From a colleague, I was told I had to do the following:

This would fall under the EEA rules (as I am an EEA citizen) and there are 2 stages to the process – 1) applying for a 6 month entry visa, my family will need to obtain this from outside the UK, and 2) applying for a 5 year BRP, which can be done when they return to the UK.

This process would require that we head back to Canada, apply and come back. Can we not apply from the UK given that we are already here on a Tier 2 Visa? It seems to me, that 1) above would only be a requirement if we weren't in the country already.

Any advice would be appreciated.

BritInParis

If your wife and daughter are currently residing in the UK as your Tier 2 dependants and you have just become an Irish citizen then you can apply for their EEA residence cards from within the UK now. No need to return to Canada. I would do this immediately given the possible implications of the triggering of Article 50 later this month. Expect a six month wait for the cards to be issued. You should receive a letter from the Home Office stating their applications are under consideration which you can use in the interim as evidence of their right to live and work in the UK.

Did you receive your Irish citizenship through an Irish-born parent or grandparent? If it was the former then your daughter can also apply for Irish citizenship. If the latter then you would have need to have been registered as an Irish citizen before she was born in order for her to be eligible.

charlie1971

Thanks for the quick response. That is a relief that we don't have to do this outside of the UK.

Is this the correct link we should be using?

https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-residence-card

If so, a couple of questions..

- Would we need to send in originals of passports? The reason I ask is that we are planning to travel in the next month and that could cause an issue.
- Can we use the Nationality Checking Service that some councils offer instead?


Thanks again..

BritInParis

If you apply for your EEA registration certificate (somewhat superfluous if you're an Irish citizen but there we go) then you can include your wife and daughter as your dependants and therefore you will all be eligible to use both the online application form and the European passport return service.

https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-...icate/overview

https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...return-service

If your Tier 2 visas are about to expire then I wouldn't travel until I had either the cards for your wife and daughter or the letter from the Home Office saying their applications are under consideration otherwise they may be refused entry at the UK border when they return.

charlie1971

Thanks again for the reply. This is most helpful and I think the way to go in this situation.

I have one other complication. As my parents were born in Northern Ireland, I not only applied for EU passport (irish), but I applied for my British citizenship as well. That application is still pending - 2 months in and I should get that shortly, all being well.

If I proceed with how you recommend below and in the interim, I get my British citizenship approved, can I then reverse course and have my wife/daughter apply for the Remain in the UK with Family as per below?

https://www.gov.uk/remain-in-uk-family/overview

BritInParis

If both your parents were born in Northern Ireland and they were married at the time of your birth then you would have been born a British and Irish citizen. What application are you making exactly?

charlie1971

Thanks for the reply. So, I submitted the UKM application back in December. I could have used he UKF, but this is the one I opted for. I went through the Nationality checking service, have done my biometrics etc. Just waiting for everything to get confirmed.

The idea was to get both passports and avoid renewing the Tier 2 Visa. I can do that with either the Irish or Brit passport, but the real issue is my family. I know you mentioned about by daughter and the Foreign Birth to claim her Irish citizenship and we will do that at a later time.

The ultimate goal is to have my family stay under my British citizenship, but based on the timeframe (visa expiring next month) and no sign of the British passport yet, we have to go the EU route first.

So, if I go ahead and go the way you suggested earlier, could I then submit what I mentioned below when I eventually receive my Brit citizenship and passport which based on the timescale will be sometime in April/May.

BritInParis

Applying for British citizenship when you have an Irish passport is likely to prove very costly as you won't be able to keep your family in the UK under EEA freedom of movement rule which would save you £0000s in fees and a lot of paperwork and hassle over the next five years. Personally I would cancel your application immediately and apply again after your wife becomes a British citizen.

charlie1971

So, I am still a little bit confused.

- Either way, I am going to have both an Irish and British passport within the next 2 months (assuming there is no issue with my Brit app)
- My current Irish passport will allow me to continue working here without extending my Tier 2 Visa which expires next month
- My Brit passport will obviously do the same
- My wife and daughter are not eligible to apply for Brit citizenship for 2 more years.

With my wife and daughter, I have gone ahead and submitted an application to get them a residence card based on my Irish citizenship. The application will be in progress next week and I assume I will get a letter from the Home office confirming this, which should allow them to stay here while we wait for the final approval.

IF and when I get my Brit citizenship approved in the interim period, I assumed I could cancel the above and then re-apply for keeping them here based on my Brit citizenship instead.

So essentially, here is the timeframe I was thinking..

- Apply for EEA dependent residence for my wife and daughter
- Tier 2 Visa Expires for them - April
- Receive letter from Home Office confirming receipt and application under consideration - That should allow them to come in and out.
- Receive my Brit citizenship approval
- Cancel above EEA application for wife and daughter
- Apply for wife and daughter to stay under my Brit passport.


Couple of questions......

1. Should I just carry on with the EEA application for them and not bother cancelling the app and doing the Brit one when my Brit citizenship arrives? If I go this route, it would be cheaper; however, the Brexit situation may impact this at some point when Article 50 is invoked. My wife and daughter have already been in the country for 3 years, so essentially we would just need to get to 5 years and they can apply for their own Brit citizenship/passport. This would be the cheaper of the two options. Would they both be eligible for Brit citizenship under this scenario (3 years on Tier 2 Visa + 2 years on EEA RP)?

OR

2. Should I go with what I stated above and cancel the EEA one once my Brit citizenship and passport are approved? This could come at any time in the new few weeks. The problem with this approach is cost as it is a bit expense doing both etc. It would negate any uncertainty over Article 50 with a steeper cost.

What would you do?

Apologies for all the questions. I do appreciate you taking the time to respond.

BritInParis

You won't become a British citizen until you undertake your citizenship ceremony so you can still put the brakes on that now.

If you switch from Tier 2 to spouse for your wife now then that will reset her clock so it'll be another five years before she's eligible for ILR. If you have always been an Irish citizen, albeit not holding an Irish passport until recently, then your Tier 2 visa would have been effectively null and void (Irish citizens are considered 'settled' in the UK whenever they are ordinarily resident) and your family's Tier 2 dependent visas would be superseded by EEA freedom of movement rules.

Therefore if you cancel your application for British citizenship and continue with the application for your EEA registration certificate including your wife and daughter then your wife would be eligible for Permanent Residence in two years time and British citizenship a year after that. I would also register your daughter as an Irish citizen now to take her out of the equation.

If you're worried about Brexit then know that you can also lodge a spouse application for your wife as an Irish citizen as well as relying on EEA freedom of movement but remember that Brexit won't happen until at least April 2019 and if your family has already been in the UK for three years then your wife will reach the five year mark to qualify for Permanent Residence before the UK leaves.

To summarise, I would recommend the following course of action:

1. Continue with your online application for an EEA registration certificate including your wife and daughter as dependants and ensure you hold their Home Office application letters before you next travel.
2. Withdraw your application for registration as a British citizen.
3. Lodge your daughter's application for Irish Foreign Birth Registration with the Irish Embassy in London and obtain her Irish passport when registered.
4. At the five year mark apply for your wife's EEA Permanent Residence card. Once it's received then your wife can apply to naturalise as a British citizen after a further year's residence. Once she is a British citizen then you can safely apply for your British citizenship by registration.

charlie1971

Thanks for this. This clears up almost everything. The only piece I am not sure about is withdrawing my application for registration as British citizen. How would this impact the other things? As I am eligible for both Irish and Brit citizenship based on my parents Northern Ireland birth. Can I not hold both British and Irish citizenship and still do only what you have suggested above?

BritInParis

Yes, sorry, I should have explained that aspect. An an Irish citizen resident in the UK you receive all the benefits of being being a British citizen but you also additionally are treated as an EEA citizen for freedom of movement purposes. As a British citizen you could not take advantage of these rules as you would be residing in the country of your nationality and therefore the normal UK spouse visa rules would apply. Therefore holding off becoming a British citizen until after your wife's naturalisation offers you the best of both worlds.

charlie1971

Thanks again for your help. It is all very complex.

I have a bit of new twist before i had a chance to cancel my citizenship application and just wanted to get your advice.

I was called today by the Home Office as they were processing my application. They asked if my parents were married when I was born. Of course they were and they asked for me to send a copy of their marriage certificate. The (very nice) lady told me that I was already a British citizen by default, because both my parents were both in Northern Ireland and married when I was born. She will refund my ceremony fee and process the passport application right away. A little strange, but I just agreed to send over the marriage certificate. I have not yet.

Question. Do you think it is too late now to cancel the process? Technically, I was a British citizen all along (apparently - even though I am still not clear how, but I didn't argue); however, I just haven't claimed my British citizenship. I would prefer to go the route you detailed above as I get all the benefits being an EEA citizen without having to pay the Health surcharge and the application fees. I can defer getting my British passport until my wife and daughter are eligible for theirs..

BritInParis

I presumed that you were using Form UKM because your parents weren't married, hence my question in Post #6. If they were married then you have always been a British and Irish citizen and your Tier 2 visa is null and void. This does blow the whole EEA route for your family. You'll have to apply for a spouse visa for your wife since her visa is also invalid. If you didn't live in the UK for three consecutive years before your daughter was born then she can't yet be registered as a British citizen. Her application for Irish citizenship has just become imperative. Frankly you've got yourself into a bit of a mess. It would be safer for your wife and daughter to return to Canada, wait until your daughter has an Irish passport and then your wife can apply for her spouse visa from there as there's no guarantee that her spouse visa would be granted from within the UK given your circumstances. You can just apply for your British passport by picking up an application form from the Post Office.

charlie1971

Hmmm.. I have to admit this whole process is very confusing. I was born in Canada and my parents were married and Canadian passport holders for many years prior to my birth in 1971. The number of British citizens by default is enormous if this is the case.

In any event, when I applied for my Tier 2 Visa in 2014, it never was flagged by our immigration lawyer at the time. I think most people living in Canada (or the US for that matter) under the same set of circumstances wouldn't even think twice about their status.

So, our only option at this point is really to go down the permit route for my wife and daughter and chance it based on my British citizenship (that I never knew I actually had!). Waiting for my daughter to get her passport would be long time. It takes months to get the Foreign Birth Registration done and then time after that for her passport. She would miss a ton of school, so not an option.

If I cancelled the British passport process, what is the chances that if I submitted an EEA Dependent application that they would actually check? I have never claimed British citizenship. Sounds dodgy, I know.