bundy

Don't often find myself in this forum as we'll be leaving the UK, but I wonder if anyone here can offer me some advice.

Mr B is an aussie, born to a British mother. His mother moved to AUstralia when she was 5, and died there in 1987.

Mr B has Right of Abode here with the magic sticker in his aussie passport. We've been back here in the UK for nearly 4 years now and Mr B is wondering if he can get a British passport in addition to his Aussie one.

Is this possible? I've looked on the IND website but can't make head or tail of it.

Don

If he was born to a British woman who was born in UK, he has automatic right to UK passport. http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/w...D_KINGDOM.html

bundy

Thanks on. So does that mean that he can just fill in a standard passport application form? Sounds a bit too easy to me. Surely there must be forms to complete and obscure bits of documentation to track down?!

Don

To get my sons their Brit passports whilst abroad, I had to supply proof of my UK citizenship (my passport), their birth certificates and my marriage certificate (my wife's not British).

So I imagine he will have to provide his birth certificate + evidence his mother was a British citizen born in UK (eg her old passport or her birth certificate).

JAJ

I'm assuming that Mr B was born before 1983.
Contrary to what Don has posted (sorry Don ... ) people born outside the UK to British mothers before 1983 are *not*automatically British citizens unless:

- they had a British born or naturalised father married to the mother; or
- they have been registered or naturalised as a British citizen.

It is possible to apply for registration as a British citizen by descent in some circumstances if you were born to a British mother between 1961 and 1982. I can supply links to this if needs be.

However, as Mr B is (apparently) married to a British citizen, has UK permanent resident status (which includes Right of Abode) and has lived in the UK for 4 years, a better option would be to apply for *naturalisation* as a British citizen. This gives British citizenship *otherwise than by descent*.

The relevant information is on the Home Office website:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/default.asp?PageId=151
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/def...sp?PageId=3684
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/file.asp?fileid=1103

There is one quirk about the way the 3 year residence period for spouses of British citizens works. On the day a naturalisation application is received at the HO, they look back 3 years. You *must* have been physically in the UK on this date 3 years ago. So, for example, if in 2001 you took a holiday in France from 1 July to 15 July, you cannot apply for naturalisation between 1-15 July 2004.

You can apply before or after this two week period provided you meet the other residence requirements. Generally, those *living* in the UK will not have a problem with this.

The fact you are planning to leave the UK does not matter (provided you apply when still meeting the residence requirements) when married to a British citizen. There is no requirement to stay living in the UK after application. You will need to attend a citizenship ceremony, in common with all new applicants for British citizenship, but there are quite a few applications now from overseas and they are going to have to put together some arrangements for ceremonies or sort out an exemption.

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific queries about British citizenship or the questions on the application form.

Jeremy

bundy

Thanks Jeremy, that's really helpful and I'll chase up those links.

We're not actually married yet (next August, hopefully). Does that make a difference?

He was born in 1978, in Australia. His mum and maternal grandparents were all British. His dad is an aussie but Mr B's paternal grandmother was also British.

So, if he gets naturalised, can he get a British passport in addition to his aussie one?

The Visa Office

Dear Bundy,

It is now possible for a person born to a British Mother to obtain British citizenship by decent, in some cases.
If Mr. B was born between 1961 and 1983 he may apply to Register as a British citizen (by decent) through his Mother. (The same as he would have at birth if his father was British).

An application may be lodged to the Home Office in the UK for Registration. Once the application has been approved and citizenship granted he may apply for a British passport.

It is also possible for Australian citizens to hold dual Nationality.

The other alternative is to spend a full 5 years in the UK on his Right of Abode status and then apply to Naturalise as British.

Please do not hestitate to contact us directly (via [email protected]) if you have any further queries.

Regards,

Philippa

bundy

Jeremy and Phillipa - got any links for this process?

JAJ

It does make a difference. If not married to a British citizen the residence period for naturalisation is 5 years and it *would* be important for him to stay UK resident (and plan to continue to do so) right up to being sworn in as a citizen.

So he's not eligible for naturalisation now, and looks unlikely to be so until you get married.

He can register now as a British citizen based on his British mother, but only as a British citizen *by descent*.

What does this mean?

It means that he wouldn't automatically be able to pass on his British citizenship to children born *outside* the UK and its territories. There are registration possibilities for such children, but all have specific requirements. That won't matter if you (their mother, one presumes) are British born or naturalised, as the kids would pick up British citizenship automatically from you.

But it could matter if you were British by descent yourself, or if he were to marry someone else (for example, if you died) who was not British born/naturalised and they lived back in Australia and had children there.

Once registered as a British citizen by descent it is *not* possible to naturalise, or otherwise 'upgrade', to being a British citizen otherwise than by descent.

When are you planning to leave the UK? And when you say next August as your marriage date, do you mean August 2004 or 2005? That should give an idea of what option is best.

Once he is naturalised or registered as a British citizen he can have a British passport in addition to his Australian one.

Jeremy

JAJ

Once married to a British citizen the residence period for naturalisation drops to 3 years from 5.
It is not necessary for the 3 year residence period to be accrued up after the marriage.

Jeremy

bundy

Hi Jeremy,

Getting married in the UK in August 2005 and aim to be leaving for Oz soon after that (assuming I get my visa, of course). We came back to the UK (and Mr B first came here) in October 2000, so we would be just short of the 5 year requirement if we leave when planned next summer, although we'd be married at that point. And we wouldn't be planning to stick around in the UK.

We don't have kids yet, but yes, I'd assumed they would have British citizenship from my side of things.

Other than handing down citizenship, are there any other pros and cons between the two different methods?

The Visa Office

Dear Bundy,

Jeremy has given the links above for Naturalisation, Registration information and application forms is on the Home Office website also, at www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk.

As Jeremy states also if you were to be married an application for Naturalisation may be able to be lodged straight away as he has already spent in excess of the 3 year period in the UK.

Regards,

Philippa.

JAJ

Options look like:

- wait until you are married and then immediately apply for naturalisation; assuming the other requirements are met; OR

- apply now to be registered as a British citizen by descent. The links for this process are:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/def...sp?PageId=3854
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/def...sp?PageId=3855
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/file.asp?fileid=753

In terms of what you asked:

- the only difference between a British citizen by descent and otherwise than by descent is in terms of ability to pass on British citizenship to children born *outside* the UK. But as you've noted, if children do not get British citizenship from their father they can still get it from their mother. The problem would arise in the circumstances I noted - if the mother was not UK born/naturalised.

- the opportunity to register as a British citizen based on descent from a mother is *not* time-limited. Unless Parliament decided to change the law again, which is unlikely in the near term.
So maybe the best option might be to wait until you get married, and apply for naturalisation, knowing that this registration option is available any time as a fall back.

- if you look through the registration requirements for children of British mothers, you'll see it does *not* require any UK residence.

Jeremy

bundy

Great, thanks for that. I think he'll go for naturalisation as soon as we get married. Seems sensible if the option is there and use the other option as a back-up plan if necessary, as you say.

Don

Sorry my information was incomplete! I humbly beg forgiveness and kowtow to the correct knowledge.

Can't get it right all the time...

Good job Jezza Jenkins is around (PS JAJ, did you cancel your topcities website? Got a 'not available' when I checked.)