europlatus

Hi everyone,

I'm wondering if there's a mistake in Form VAF 4A for Appendix 2.

I'm sponsoring my wife and fulfilling the financial requirements with income from self-employment. I'm using Category F which is self-employment income from the last full financial year. I'm not combining it with anything else; my gross income from my business alone is more than the minimum required.
So for this question (3.58 ii):
"Does your sponsor’s self employment earnings (before tax) in the last full financial year meet or exceed the financial requirement you must
meet?"

I choose 'Yes'. But it then says, if 'yes' go to Part 3D



But then Part 3D is all about "Income from other non-employment sources"

and it says:

"This section contains information relevant to the Category C way to meet the financial requirement as set out in the policy guidance notes."

If I'm applying in Category F, then do I really need to fill in this info for Category C?

I'm wondering if this is a mistake on the form, because surely it would make more sense if the instruction earlier to whether my self employment earnings in the last full financial year meet or exceed the financial requirement was "If 'no', go to Part 3D" because this would then apply to those who are combining self-employment income with non-employment income.

Am I completely mad? Please help!

not2old

no mistake as I see it what is in the paper version of Appendix 2

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-Appendix2.pdf

page 5, section 3.3 - tick box 'income from self employment', then tick box category F

Then fill in section 3C on page 9

europlatus

Hi not2old, thanks for the reply.

I have filled in Part 3C. But question 3.58 ii on page 9, which is in Part 3C, says to go to Part 3D if you answer 'yes'.

Part 3D is for Category C, which is nothing to do with Part 3C.
I'm still wondering if there's a mistake on the form.

So referring back to section 3.3 on page 5 that you mentioned, here are the instructions:

Category F = Complete Part 3C (income from self-employment)
Category C = Complete Part 3D (income from other non-employment sources)

I just want to fulfil requirements for the first of these, so why would it send me to Part 3D?

not2old

its asking 3D if there is any other income over & above what you've reported as meting the requirements of category F & what you filled in section 3c.... thats it

Do ou have any other assets, other income other than that reported in the boxes in section 3C, if so, fill in the blanks

europlatus

Ok thanks.

So you think the section should be filled in even if the financial requirements are met by other means?

As it happens I do have a tiny bit of income from rental, which mainly goes towards paying off a mortgage. I don't really need this taken into account, but you think they still want to know about it?

If it's indeed not a mistake on the form, it's very confusing because they explicitly say that Part 3D is for Category C. It seems I'm not the only one either as a Google search found other people confused by this. No one seems to have a clear answer though, some claim to have left it blank.

Thanks for your help not2old!

not2old

even though you've met the requirements just fill in the blanks with what you have.

Consider someone who didn't meet the full requirements but by adding the other income from whatever it took them over the top

europlatus

Exactly, that's what I thought, but then of course I would have expected the instruction on the form to say "If 'no' go to Part 3D" for that question of whether their income from self-employment fulfilled the requirements, instead of "if 'yes' ..."

It makes total sense if they have NOT fulfilled the requirements by other means because then you're using a combination of categories to fulfil the requirements.

Anyway, I think your advice to fill it in anyway to be good. I think it's better to provide too much information than not enough. We can always use the Additional Information box to explain that we do not intend to use Category C to fulfil the requirements.

not2old

from another thread on this forum, the following specified evidence (thanks to SanDiegogirl for this)

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigrat...ified-evidence

europlatus

Going back to considering this person, for question 3.58 ii:
"Does your sponsor’s self employment earnings (before tax) in the last full financial year meet or exceed the financial requirement you must
meet?"

If they tick the box for 'No', what do they then do? There is no instruction for which section this person needs to go to. There is only an instruction for those that tick 'yes', whereas it's the one's that tick 'no' that need to be told what to do next.

This is why I believe there's a mistake on the form. I know I'm beating a dead horse, but just wanted to put it out there to help anyone else who might run into the same problem in this category.

Here is a link to a screenshot of the relevant question: screenshot
I think this should say "If 'No' go to Part 3D (where you can enter additional income to fulfil the requirement)".

not2old

are you arguing the form is wrong, or that you answered previous sections as meeting the requirements correctly then (would or would not) filled in part D?

There are folks filling this in, now maybe some don't bother filling in part D - I wouldn't know

if it was me, I would fill the form sections the way that I mentioned above, including part D.

Its entirely up to you what you do... what are you going to do?

Good luck

europlatus

I believe there could be an official printed mistake on the form because of the reasons I outlined above. I wondered if anyone else had either come across this or could otherwise verify it.

As for what I'm going to do, I agree with your advice. I think it's best to fill in Part D to be on the safe side.

I appreciate your help. I'm aware that others might be following this post, which is why I was putting forward my case for why I think there's a printing error. Nothing against your advice.

Cheers!

not2old

I might agree it is a typo in what you asked, that said I would still fill in section D

fyi... at the end of section 3 is the following questions

3.63 If the total annual income from non-employment sources is taken together with your sponsor’s income from employment
(Part 3A or Part 3B and/or Part 3C) does this meet or exceed the financial requirement you must meet?
Put a cross (x) in the relevant box
Yes O No O

3.77 Taking into account the cash saving you/your sponsor hold (Part 3F), the total income your sponsor receives from
employment (Part 3A, 3B and/or 3C), the total income you and your sponsor receive from non-employment sources (Part 3D)
and from pension/benefits (Part 3E), do you meet the financial requirement? Put a cross (x) in the relevant box

Yes O No O

europlatus

Yes, I noticed those questions too (and question 3.73) and was unsure if they needed answering in my situation. They are all essentially the same question

The way I originally saw it, they apply to those who are combining income sources to fulfil the requirements.
So question 3.63 is for those filling out Part 3D (using non-employment income), question 3.73 is for Part 3E (using income from pension) and question 3.77 is for Part 3F (using cash savings). And according to page 5, I only need to fill out Part 3C.

But now I'm unsure whether all 3 questions need to be answered!