ldollard

Very interesting article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23029195

WEBlue

Aha, I was wondering when the mainstream media would begin covering the SS route!

Intriguing that the article states the minimum required time to work in the other (non-UK) EEA country to be three months. I've always seen 6 months quoted as the "safest" time period of work to show settling intentions in that country....

idwal

Hi there! I saw the BBC article about the Surinder Singh route this week and am seriousley considering trying it. I am an UK citizen and my wife is a Brazilian citizen. My son was born in Brazil and has a Brazilian passport but is also eligible to have a British passport. I came back to the UK from Brazil in April to try and find a job in order to bring my family in from Brazil but have had no luck. I am thinking of going to work in France for 3-6 months- and then bringing my family in to the UK from there through the Surinder Singh route. Just some questions regarding this- 1. Would my wife and son have to arrive in France the same day as me o'r could I arrive there earlier, find a job and then they could come-say a month later for example? Do we need to arrive in France together e.g. on the same flight? 2. Regarding what visa my wife and son come in on to France-would it be okay for them to come in on a Tourist Visa? (A Brazilian Citizen can stay in France for 3 months on a tourist visa). O'r should she look to come in on another Visa in order to help us get the EEA Family permit to get into the UK? What kind of Visas do most non-EEA spouses come into the EEA on? My plan is for us to stay there in France, apply for the EEA Family permit from there and then cross over to the UK by Ferry. Its best to apply for the EEA family permit beforehand, yes? Any help would be greatly appreciated it.

ldollard

Firstly, can you please break that up into paragraphs, more people will likely read it and respond as it'll make it far easier to read.

Secondly your family needs to be with you in order to get the residence permit for them in order to proceed with the surinder singh route.

idwal

Thanks for the reply. I've now broken it up into paragraphs. Thanks.

Hi there! I saw the BBC article about the Surinder Singh route this week and am seriousley considering trying it.

I am an UK citizen and my wife is a Brazilian citizen. My son was born in Brazil and has a Brazilian passport but is also eligible to have a British passport. I came back to the UK from Brazil in April to try and find a job in order to bring my family in from Brazil but have had no luck.

I am thinking of going to work in France for 3-6 months- and then bringing my family in to the UK from there through the Surinder Singh route.

Just some questions regarding this-
1. Would my wife and son have to arrive in France the same day as me o'r could I arrive there earlier, find a job and then they could come-say a month later for example? Do we need to arrive in France together e.g. on the same flight?

2. Regarding what visa my wife and son come in on to France-would it be okay for them to come in on a Tourist Visa? (A Brazilian Citizen can stay in France for 3 months on a tourist visa). O'r should she look to come in on another Visa in order to help us get the EEA Family permit to get into the UK?

3.What kind of Visas do most non-EEA spouses come into the EEA on? My plan is for us to stay there in France, apply for the EEA Family permit from there and then cross over to the UK by Ferry.

Its best to apply for the EEA family permit beforehand, yes?

Any help would be greatly appreciated it. Thanks.

danwalmsley

Hi, I'm in pretty much a the same situation as you. I am getting married to my Brazilian partner, she is here with me in the UK on a tourist visa, and we have to leave following our wedding on the 18th Sept.

I am trying to get work in Spain and Ireland.

Perhaps someone can clarify if this is correct but as far as I can see:

1) All EU states apart from your home state i.e. UK have to grant entry for you and your wife +children on showing your EU passport + marriage certificate and her passport.

2) You should take the specific EU laws with you printed in the language of the state you are entering. (I found links to them in this old article http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010...ant-to-travel/)

What else have you found out in your research, perhaps you might like to PM or Email me maybe we can help each other in our research.

Good luck! You shouldn't have to go through all this, its your human right to live in your home country with your family.

WEBlue

Questions 1, 2, and 3 can only be answered by looking at specific regulations for non-EEA spouses entering France with EU spouses who are exercising EU treaty rights. You might try asking all 3 questions in the Europe/France forum of BE.
My understanding is that it makes entering the UK easiest for the couple if the EEA FP is in hand before the couple leaves (say) France to move to the UK. It's not strictly required, but it seems to be easier for border IOs to understand the situation than to try to enter without it.

rebeccajo

But the mainstream media OFTEN gets immigration details wrong.

Sue

I recently had someone email me about this as they were reading the various threads on BE about it and they asked me to share the following. I don't know if the links below have been posted before but if not here you go:


1.the UKBA website
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/po.../ecg/eun/eun2/

and

2. an abstract from the Section 2.5.1 and 3.2 of the UKBA document
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...df?view=Binary

spouse of scouse

Thanks Sue, those links cleared up a lot of questions for me. Of particular interest is that work undertaken by the UK national in an EEA country, as part of the SS route, can't be 'transient or casual'. People contemplating this process have talked about getting a few hours work here or there in a bar/restaurant, but it seems that this may not be sufficient.

WEBlue

Very true.

I'm wondering if the only contact the journalist, Catrin Nye, who wrote this piece, had with UKBA was summed up in this quote from the article.

englishguygoinghome

Hmm - well the UKBA (and many other equivalents) also often illegally refuse EU applications or try to put in additional illegal barriers. As far as the letter of the law is concerned "exercising treaty rights" is all that is required (no minimum time, no "permanent residency", no "full-time work"). Of course at a pragmatic level it's often easier to tick a few extra boxes than fight for years.

If you are in a situation where you think you may be border-line and might get refused while trying to go the Singh route then I'd suggest contacting the dedicated support offices in the EU who will either help you if you have already been refused or give you concrete guidance on your plans: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/help/index_en.htm

ldollard

Totally agree, the UKBA literally has no say so in this process at all as its an EU wide directive, thus above their pay grade. Although as others have stated, they usually disregard the EU law for their own ends.

alliekat

6 months has just been the "rule of thumb" as it were. However, case law indicates that as little as 10 weeks is long enough, and as little as 10-12 hours per week are both enough to be considered engaged in "genuine and effective employment". Also, if there is any training for the job, training should be included in that time frame, as the UKBA definition of worker includes "those undergoing training in their own or another field." If you want the cases/sources of this info, I'm happy to provide what I have...

My husband and I did 13 weeks abroad. His employment contract kept getting breached by his employer and we literally had to get out of there before we got stuck there. There was no supplemental work/income for him and no work at all for me. When we arrived (via plane) I was issued a 1A (could be A1, some confusion) stamp in my passport. Basically that means that we showed enough evidence upon arrival (at Gatwick) that we in fact fulfilled the requirements to be admitted under Surinder Singh. I'm putting together the packet for a residency card now. Officially, I don't actually NEED it to have rights of residence here, but it's really quite a pain to prove to people over and over that I've the right to be here, right to work, etc.

We are probably not the first, and I know of several other couples that have gained entry on Surinder Singh at/around the 3 month mark. So there is merit to it.

alliekat

I think "transient or casual" means day laboring with no consistent hours and with more than one employer? I'm not a professional, but that is how I would interpret that. Meaning: If you go to France and literally just pick up odd jobs mowing lawns here and there but are not actually "employed" or "self employed" you might be engaged in transient or casual work.

The Kempf case(C-139/85) and Megner and Scheffel case(C-444/93) indicate that being engaged in 10-12 hours of work per week serves the definition, and that 10,12 or even 18 hours of work per week don't exclude the person from being regarded as a worker. Also, the Franca Ninni-Orasche case (C-413/01) dealt with fixed term employment of 10 weeks, and that time frame was generally considered to be acceptable in terms of length of time. Regarding employment of less than 10-12 hours per week, Genc (C-14/09) dealt with tests that could be applied to determine whether or not the employment was "genuine and effective". That case dealt with 5.5 hours per week.

You can find an amazing breakdown of these cases here: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011...o-is-a-worker/

Also, http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...ts?view=Binary

gives a the definition of what a worker is defined by the UKBA. See page 4, section 6.2.1. It seems to apply to others who come here to exercise their treaty rights, but I think it would be difficult for them to apply an alternate meaning to a British citizen exercising their treaty rights abroad.