Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Moving back or to the UK > Citizenship/Passports and Spouse/Family Visas (UK)
Reload this Page >

section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

Old Feb 13th 2024, 7:31 pm
  #31  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 35
LeftMyHeartInEngland is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

Well, I read far into the night, went all the way back to 1914. I thank you, Glassybell, for suggesting I start over.

What I've found so far that pertains to me and/or parents:

1914 Act - : natural-born british subject
1) any person born within His Majesty's dominions and allegiance
and
2) any person born outside of His Majesty's dominoins and allegiance if father was a British subject at time of person's birth with stipulations, one being registration at a British Consulate within one year of child's birth.

1943 Act:
no change with regard to a person born within His Majesty's dominions and allegiance (me)

1948 Act:
"everyone who under this Act is a CUKC or is a citizen of any country mentioned in subsection (3) shall by virtue of that citizenship have the status of a British subject." One of the countries listed in subsection (3) is Canada.

There is a section, number 17, that I need some clarification on in order to know if I can go any further. I have brought that subject up in another thread so can't discuss it here according to forum rules but if/when I get it sorted and am able to apply using 4L, I'd like to come back and ask a few questions about the application itself.

Thank you once again for your invaluable help.
LeftMyHeartInEngland is offline  
Old Feb 14th 2024, 3:42 pm
  #32  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 35
LeftMyHeartInEngland is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

Well, it's been settled. It has been kindly and patiently explained to me why I am not eligible for British citizenship. Thankfully, the penny has finally dropped.

Within the explanation that I am not eligible for citizenship, the way home opened up. I was pointed to the Right of Abode.

By all accounts I am eligible for ROA and I am happy with that...in fact I am thrilled. Not citizenship but a very close second.

I'm over the moon.
LeftMyHeartInEngland is offline  
Old Feb 14th 2024, 5:31 pm
  #33  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 64
Glassybell is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

Originally Posted by LeftMyHeartInEngland
Well, it's been settled. It has been kindly and patiently explained to me why I am not eligible for British citizenship. Thankfully, the penny has finally dropped.

Within the explanation that I am not eligible for citizenship, the way home opened up. I was pointed to the Right of Abode.

By all accounts I am eligible for ROA and I am happy with that...in fact I am thrilled. Not citizenship but a very close second.

I'm over the moon.
deleted comment for new one.

make sure to be reading the as-enacted 1971 imm. act. look at this subsection of section 2:

"(2)A woman is under this Act also to have the right of abode in the United Kingdom if she is a Commonwealth citizen and either—(a)is the wife of any such citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies as is mentioned in subsection (1)(a), (b) or (c) above or any such Commonwealth citizen as is mentioned in subsection (1)(d); or

(b)has at any time been the wife—

(i)of a person then being such a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or Commonwealth citizen; or

(ii)of a British subject who but for his death would on the date of commencement of the [1948 c. 56.] British Nationality Act 1948 have been such a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies as is mentioned in subsection (1)(a) or (b);"
Glassybell is offline  
Old Feb 14th 2024, 5:55 pm
  #34  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 35
LeftMyHeartInEngland is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

I'll have a look at the sections you've mentioned. Right now I am about finished, done in, exhausted. I believe I was given a bum steer on another forum with regard to ROA. I should have searched before I accepted the opinion but I got too excited/encouraged and didn't do so. I think ROA is out of bounds for me.

I'll go have a peek at the info. you've posted. But first I think I need chocloate.

Thanks again. I do appreciate your help.
LeftMyHeartInEngland is offline  
Old Feb 14th 2024, 6:50 pm
  #35  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 35
LeftMyHeartInEngland is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

I think the sections you referenced apply to a wife only if married before 1983. My UK marriage - 2010.

Shot down once again I think. Ate all the chocolate, off to restock.
LeftMyHeartInEngland is offline  
Old Feb 14th 2024, 10:38 pm
  #36  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 64
Glassybell is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

Originally Posted by LeftMyHeartInEngland
I think the sections you referenced apply to a wife only if married before 1983. My UK marriage - 2010.

Shot down once again I think. Ate all the chocolate, off to restock.
Yes, I realized my mistake after I posted. I got excited for you and jumped the gun. Sorry!
Glassybell is offline  
Old Feb 15th 2024, 12:43 am
  #37  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 35
LeftMyHeartInEngland is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

Not to worry, I appreciate all you are doing to help. I've jumped the gun more than a few times. And now I've about run out of options.

I wish I understood a bit more about 4L c) exceptional circumstances. It appears to be related to personal circumstances that derailed someone's journey to British Citizenship rather than legislative or public authority issues. It seems that it can be completely unrelated to the two other points. I keep going back to my original thought, to do with my marriage and the damage done because of my husband's stroke that sent me back to Canada and scuppered our plans. I think I outlined my thoughts at the very beginning of my threads. I know it would be a long-shot at best but what do I have to lose but money If I'd gotten as far as ILR, I might be a bit more optimistic but the point is, the journey to citizenship did start and it was derailed because of exceptional circumstances beyond my control, beyond anyone's control for that matter.

Over ten years, I applied for and received Discretionary Leave to Remain on Compassionate Grounds twice. I was forced to leave at least four times and returned four times (I've lost track). If circumstances hadn't devestated our marriage, I'd have had ILR by 2017 and citizenship a year later. It wasn't for lack of trying. But emotions have no place in legislation nor does what we wish for or work for.

I wish someone could play devil's advocate for me and give me all the reasons why applying under 4L c) wouldn't work for me. I'd either be able to build a case by debating those reasons or I'd be able to accept defeat. I'm stubborn but sometimes quitting is the best choice. I've been fighting to stay in /return to England for 10 years and I'm tired and near defeat. This is my last kick at the can.

LeftMyHeartInEngland is offline  
Old Feb 15th 2024, 9:09 am
  #38  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 35
LeftMyHeartInEngland is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

I thought that if I apply using 4L c) I could describe the situation in depth, emphasing that I accumulated 5.5 years residence in total, although not consecutively (3 years, then 2.5 years with 1.5 years in between) because of the situation with my marriage. Home Office has evidence of it's own if they keep all correspondence in my file. My husband sent a number of very odd letters to them and also sent requests that I be deported followed by messages that he had changed his mind. He even signed their forms saying I no longer was living with him when it was not true. Home Office sent me two or three letters saying that my leave was rescinded (wrong word) and I must leave. Those letters were followed by ones saying I could stay after all because my husband had not been truthful. He sent them letters accusing me of bigamy and adultery and theft, wanted me arrested and deported. Hopefully they keep all correspondence in my file. It would corroborate my explanation of his deteriorating mental health. Home Office would be able to see that i was working toward ILR. I did file a police report once when the physical abuse got violent. That's the only report I made to authorities although my husband's social worker had to get involved when he became abusive with me and with one of his female carers and when he filed for divorce on the grounds that I was having an affair with his 20-something carer. (I was 71 at the time) The man I am describing is not the man I married. It is a man who suffered a massive stroke. This is what can happen to a mind that's had a catastrophic injury. Anyway, these are some of the events that I would mention in order to describe the exceptional circumstances that derailed our plans for me to reach British citizenship.
LeftMyHeartInEngland is offline  
Old Feb 15th 2024, 3:52 pm
  #39  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 35
LeftMyHeartInEngland is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

I've struggled for 10 years to get home. I had come to terms with having to give up hope until I happened to see an article about section 4L a month or so ago. That stirred up a glimmer of hope. So I tried to see if there might be a way after all. There isn't. The only avenue accessible is a UK Ancestry Visa which I qualify for but the application fee and health surcharge ($10,000) put it far out of reach for me.

it's time to let go, time to stop struggling and hoping There is no way home for me. It breaks my heart but it is what it is.

i am very grateful for this forum and for all the willing folks who share and support. Together you make it possible for others to pursue their dreams they would not otherwise reach. You are lovely people.

Thank you.
LeftMyHeartInEngland is offline  
Old Feb 23rd 2024, 5:21 pm
  #40  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 1
wgwm is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

Originally Posted by Glassybell
I do not know the answer to your question nor do I know how much you are supposed to pay. But, if you are applying based on consular birth registration, which in your case you will be saying didn't happen because of extenuating circumstances, you may only have to pay 80 pounds. I cannot guarantee that, but I successfully applied under section 4L and only paid 80 pounds (British grandmother - my birth couldn't be registered because of gender discrimination). I was born after 1949 though so under the 1948 BNA, so our cases are not the same. But if you don't get a definitive answer about how much you are supposed to pay, you could answer 1.4a as No, and 1.4b as Yes (which is how I answered), and pay 80 pounds and submit - the worst that happens is they write you and say you need to pay more and then you decide if it's worth it.
Glassybell - my paternal grandmother was born in England and my father and I are both U.S. citizens (he has died though). You mentioned that you were granted citizenship via 4L - is there any way you can tell me your story to see if it is the same as mine? Most importantly, the form asks for specific reasons for the exceptional circumstances of why you should be granted UK citizenship - this is the hard part - so could you post or email me exactly what you wrote for the reason(s)? I take it you filled out the form yourself, paid the 80 pounds and did not go through a lawyer? Thanks for your help!!
wgwm is offline  
Old Feb 23rd 2024, 6:16 pm
  #41  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 9,652
SanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond reputeSanDiegogirl has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

Originally Posted by LeftMyHeartInEngland
I've struggled for 10 years to get home. I had come to terms with having to give up hope until I happened to see an article about section 4L a month or so ago. That stirred up a glimmer of hope. So I tried to see if there might be a way after all. There isn't. The only avenue accessible is a UK Ancestry Visa which I qualify for but the application fee and health surcharge ($10,000) put it far out of reach for me.

it's time to let go, time to stop struggling and hoping There is no way home for me. It breaks my heart but it is what it is.

i am very grateful for this forum and for all the willing folks who share and support. Together you make it possible for others to pursue their dreams they would not otherwise reach. You are lovely people.

Thank you.

Do you not consider Canada as much your home as the UK?
From what I understand from your posts, you are 79 years old, and apart from a few years between 2010 and 2018 in the UK (tumultuous ones by your description) your life has been in Canada.
I wonder if you are not looking at the UK with rose tinted glasses?
Uprooting oneself is daunting. Even if you obtained British citizenship, do you have all the resources to set yourself up in the UK? - accommodation is the first major task; then ongoing financial support; social support; setting up bank accounts, doctors, etc etc.
I would like to think that even if you cannot live in the UK, you would still be happy in Canada.
Wishing you the best.
SanDiegogirl is offline  
Old Feb 23rd 2024, 6:35 pm
  #42  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 64
Glassybell is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

Originally Posted by wgwm
Glassybell - my paternal grandmother was born in England and my father and I are both U.S. citizens (he has died though). You mentioned that you were granted citizenship via 4L - is there any way you can tell me your story to see if it is the same as mine? Most importantly, the form asks for specific reasons for the exceptional circumstances of why you should be granted UK citizenship - this is the hard part - so could you post or email me exactly what you wrote for the reason(s)? I take it you filled out the form yourself, paid the 80 pounds and did not go through a lawyer? Thanks for your help!!
Yes, I applied and was granted citizenship under 4L. Just got my passport this week! My grandmother was born in England, and my mom and I were born in the US between 1949-1983. I did apply without a lawyer and wrote the argument myself, with a little guidance from others in this forum. There is another thread in this form with a lot of comments from people doing ARD: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982). I'm happy to answer questions, but let's talk in that other thread so that this OP isn't getting emails about their thread and thinking someone is trying to help them.

Have you read the guidance? Look at example 13 - https://assets.publishing.service.go...-_Oct_2023.pdf.
Glassybell is offline  
Old Feb 23rd 2024, 7:48 pm
  #43  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 35
LeftMyHeartInEngland is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: section 4L, acquisition by registration:special circumstances

SanDiegogirl:
Do you not consider Canada as much your home as the UK? Canada has never been my home. Years of childhood brutality and a long, abusive marriage saw to that.

From what I understand from your posts, you are 79 years old, and apart from a few years between 2010 and 2018 in the UK (tumultuous ones by your description) your life has been in Canada.
I wonder if you are not looking at the UK with rose tinted glasses? No, I'm not wearing rose-tinted glasses. i am a realist. My husband became ill and it caused difficulties for us both. The results were/are painful but England has my heart.
Uprooting oneself is daunting. Even if you obtained British citizenship, do you have all the resources to set yourself up in the UK? - accommodation is the first major task; then ongoing financial support; social support; setting up bank accounts, doctors, etc etc. Accomodation would not be an issue. I have many good and supportive friends in England. I have a bank account in England, I have sufficient finances. If finding a doctor is as difficult there as it is here, I'll have to settle with a walk-in clinic as countless people do.
I would like to think that even if you cannot live in the UK, you would still be happy in Canada. I am resilient. I will manage. I have friends and family.
Wishing you the best. Thank you.
LeftMyHeartInEngland is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.