Immigration Question

My wife and I are both Indian citizens with green cards. We have a son
who was born in California. Since the Indian embassy does not annotate
the mother's passport for a child any more, we are required to get a
passport for him so that he can travel with us to India and back.
Which passport should we get, Indian or American, since he is eligible
for both?

As far as I can see, if he gets an American passport, we will have to
get an Indian visa for travel to India (we can get a multi-year,
multi-entry visa to reduce the hassle); if he gets an Indian passport,
he will need some sort of an American visa to travel back to the US.
Dual citizenship for Indians is still a work-in-progress. There is
also an emotional aspect to this: I WANT him to get an Indian passport
-- unless it causes major hassles for travelling back and forth to
India.

What can be the possible downsides of getting a US Passport for him
down the road? His rights in India or here? If you have been through a
similar situation, please help. Thanks.

Chris Parker

Get both passports, no visas.

U.S. passport can be used as his "permit to re-enter the U.S."


CP

crg

US citizens, can't get U.S. visas for any reason. It doesn't seem like you're embracing your new homeland.

Joachim Feise

Immigration Question wrote on 4/5/2004 14:46:

    > My wife and I are both Indian citizens with green cards. We have a son
    > who was born in California. Since the Indian embassy does not annotate
    > the mother's passport for a child any more, we are required to get a
    > passport for him so that he can travel with us to India and back.
    > Which passport should we get, Indian or American, since he is eligible
    > for both?

A US citizen needs to have a US passport to enter the US.
That pretty much settles it.

    > As far as I can see, if he gets an American passport, we will have to
    > get an Indian visa for travel to India (we can get a multi-year,
    > multi-entry visa to reduce the hassle); if he gets an Indian passport,
    > he will need some sort of an American visa to travel back to the US.

Not possible by definition. A US citizen can not get a visa. Visas are
for foreigners, by definition.

    > Dual citizenship for Indians is still a work-in-progress. There is
    > also an emotional aspect to this: I WANT him to get an Indian passport
    > -- unless it causes major hassles for travelling back and forth to
    > India.

Sorry, but if you want him to be able to travel back to the US, you will
have to get a US passport for him.
Blame the Indian government for not getting their act together...

-Joe

Joachim Feise

Chris Parker wrote on 4/5/2004 15:08:

    > Originally posted by Immigration Question
    >
    >>As far as I
    >
    > can see, if he gets an American passport, we will have to get an Indian
    > visa for travel to India (we can get a multi-year,
    >
    >>multi-entry visa to
    >
    > reduce the hassle); if he gets an Indian passport, he will need some
    > sort of an American visa to travel back to the US.
    >
    >>
    >
    > Get both
    > passports

India doesn't allow that at this point.

    > U.S. passport can be used as his "permit to re-
    > enter the U.S."

A US passport actually *has* to be used by a US citizen to enter the US
(with the exception of children, under 12, I think, who can be listed
in their parents' foreign passport, but India apparently doesn't allow
that anymore, either...)

-Joe

Chris Parker

    > > Get both passports

    > India doesn't allow that at this point.

India has nothing to do with it and doesn't need to know about it
either. India will only deal with the India passport. The U.S.
passport is just a travel document to re-enter the U.S. with.

    > > U.S. passport can be used as his "permit to re-
    > > enter the U.S."

    > A US passport actually *has* to be used by a US citizen to enter the US
    > (with the exception of children, under 12, I think, who can be listed
    > in their parents' foreign passport, but India apparently doesn't allow
    > that anymore, either...)

All children, including those under 12 can and must get their own U.S.
passport. Ridiculous, I agree, but that is the State Dept.
regulations.
You are correct, the U.S. passport is required to be used for
entering/exiting the U.S.


CP

Joachim Feise

Chris Parker said on 4/6/2004 6:36:

    >>>Get both passports
    >
    >
    >>India doesn't allow that at this point.
    >
    >
    > India has nothing to do with it and doesn't need to know about it
    > either. India will only deal with the India passport. The U.S.
    > passport is just a travel document to re-enter the U.S. with.

Are you advocating that the OP lies to the Indian authorities
about the kid having a US passport?

    >
    >
    >>>U.S. passport can be used as his "permit to re-
    >>>enter the U.S."
    >
    >
    >>A US passport actually *has* to be used by a US citizen to enter the US
    >>(with the exception of children, under 12, I think, who can be listed
    >>in their parents' foreign passport, but India apparently doesn't allow
    >>that anymore, either...)
    >
    >
    > All children, including those under 12 can and must get their own U.S.
    > passport. Ridiculous, I agree, but that is the State Dept.
    > regulations.

Wrong. 22 CFR 53.2 says something different:
"A U.S. citizen is not required to bear a valid passport to enter or
depart the United States:
[...]
(f) When he is a child under 12 years of age and is included in the
foreign passport of an alien parent; however, such child will be
required to provide evidence of his U.S. citizenship when entering the
United States;"

    > You are correct, the U.S. passport is required to be used for
    > entering/exiting the U.S.

Also, what I forgot to mention, a US passport is not required when
entering from adjacent countries.
See 22 CFR 53.2 again.

-Joe

Stuart

http://www.indianembassy.org/consula...itizenship.htm
According to the Indian Embassy there is a new law which means you can have
both passports. If you can you should get both. It will mean easy entry into
both India and the US. You might have to wait till June to make sure the law
passes first.




"Immigration Question" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > My wife and I are both Indian citizens with green cards. We have a son
    > who was born in California. Since the Indian embassy does not annotate
    > the mother's passport for a child any more, we are required to get a
    > passport for him so that he can travel with us to India and back.
    > Which passport should we get, Indian or American, since he is eligible
    > for both?
    > As far as I can see, if he gets an American passport, we will have to
    > get an Indian visa for travel to India (we can get a multi-year,
    > multi-entry visa to reduce the hassle); if he gets an Indian passport,
    > he will need some sort of an American visa to travel back to the US.
    > Dual citizenship for Indians is still a work-in-progress. There is
    > also an emotional aspect to this: I WANT him to get an Indian passport
    > -- unless it causes major hassles for travelling back and forth to
    > India.
    > What can be the possible downsides of getting a US Passport for him
    > down the road? His rights in India or here? If you have been through a
    > similar situation, please help. Thanks.

Joachim Feise

Stuart wrote on 4/6/2004 12:32:

    > http://www.indianembassy.org/consula...itizenship.htm
    > According to the Indian Embassy there is a new law which means you can have
    > both passports. If you can you should get both. It will mean easy entry into
    > both India and the US. You might have to wait till June to make sure the law
    > passes first.

My understanding is that this is not in effect at this point.
My Indian friends tell me that it also is more of a second-class citizenship,
not much more than a visa with another name...

-Joe

Chris Parker

Okay, I can't argue with the regulations... They can do that also.

However, the point I'm making is that the child can get his/her own passport, even if under 12 years old (even if 6 months old as I understand it).


CP

Joachim Feise

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004, Chris Parker wrote:
    > Okay, I can't argue with the regulations...
    > They can do that also.
    > However, the point I'm making is that the child
    > can get his/her own passport, even if under 12 years old (even if 6

Well, yeah, but that was never even in dispute.
The whole problem is that *if* they get a US passport for the child,
they can *not* get an Indian passport.
That's an *Indian* regulation. The US does not care if a person has
multiple passports, but other countries such as India do.

And, they have to get a US passport for the child to return to the
US, since India apparently does not allow anymore adding a child to
the parents' passport (the workaround of 22CFR53.)
So, the logical conclusion: they have to get a US passport for the
child. Nothing else will work.

-Joe

crg

They could always fly from India, into Canada and then enter the US by land or air with the child's birth certificate. However, the child would need a Canadian visa in his Indian passport.

Chris Parker

Do you think they (India) really would hold the child responsible for doing this?

What if the child doesn't know it had a U.S. passport, and applies for an India passport stating they never had a U.S. passport?


CP

Joachim Feise

Chris Parker said on 4/6/2004 16:59:
    >
    > What if the child doesn't know it had a
    > U.S. passport, and applies for an India passport stating they never had
    > a U.S. passport?

You really haven't thought that through, have you?
You are advocating that the parents lie to get the child an Indian passport.
I consider that a highly unethical proposition.

And, how about this scenario: the parents get a US passport for the child,
and travel with the child to India. There, they apply for an Indian passport
for the child, with the US birth certificate. First question: how did the
child enter India? The parents have no choice but to present the US passport
of the child.
Second scenario: The parents get a US passport for the child, and an Indian
passport from the Indian consulate before they travel. They enter India,
presenting the child's Indian passport. At exit time, they present the Indian
passport for the child. The Indian authorities and the airline don't let the
child board the plane, because the child does not have a visa for the US.
And the child of course can't get a visa for the US because the child is a
US citizen. The parents have no choice but to present the US passport for
the child, and probably could be prosecuted under Indian law.
Third scenario: Like the second, but the parents present the child's US
passport, and the child leaves with the US passport. That has the same
effect as not having an Indian passport at all, but the parents most likely
violated Indian law, and could be prosecuted in India.

-Joe

Amanda

crg14624 <member20421@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Originally posted by Joachim Feise
    > > On Tue, 6 Apr 2004,
    > Chris Parker wrote:
    > > > Okay, I can't argue with the
    > regulations...
    > > > They can do that also.
    > > > However,
    > the point I'm making is that the child
    > > > can get his/her own
    > passport, even if under 12 years old (even if 6
    > >
    > > Well, yeah,
    > but that was never even in dispute.
    > > The whole problem is that *if*
    > they get a US passport for the child,
    > > they can *not* get an Indian
    > passport.
    > > That's an *Indian* regulation. The US does not care if a
    > person has
    > > multiple passports, but other countries such as India do.
    > >
    >
    > > And, they have to get a US passport for the child to return to the
    > >
    > US, since India apparently does not allow anymore adding a child to
    > >
    > the parents' passport (the workaround of 22CFR53.)
    > > So, the logical
    > conclusion: they have to get a US passport for the
    > > child. Nothing else
    > will work.
    > >
    > > -Joe
    >
    > They could always fly from India, into
    > Canada and then enter the US by land or air with the child's birth
    > certificate.

So naturalized citizens could do the same too but using US passports
instead of Birth Certificate?

    > However, the child would need a Canadian visa in his
    > Indian passport.

So a US citizen enters Canada, then used Indian passport in Canada to
leave Canada and go to India. When coming back from India, get a
Canadian visa to enter Canada. Then, enter US as from Canada as a US
citizen.

Hmmm...

What if in the application form for a Canadian visa, there is a
question of where the child is born.



May be go get Canad