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News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

Old Jun 9th 2012, 8:51 pm
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Default News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

looks like the Home Secretary is going ahead with the new immigration legislation. Doesn't really affect me but it concerns me that if my daughter (born in UK and lived there until she was 15) decides one day she would like her kids and husband to experience life in the UK, it would be unlikely she would be able to do so, as she is not rich or in high income career. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ju...s-stark-choice

She is the only one married at the moment and to to be honest, unlikely to want to return but seems like the UK government is making the decision for her.

Hopefully this is just scaremongering on the part of the Guardian but with the UK government who knows. Know there is a lot of concern about it on the UK Yankee forum

To mods, if this is on the wrong forum, sorry, never sure if a topic is right for the trailer park or the main forum. Got shouted down the last time I posted something on this topic which I posted on the main forum.
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Old Jun 9th 2012, 9:38 pm
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Exclamation Re: News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

Originally Posted by jjmb View Post
looks like the Home Secretary is going ahead with the new immigration legislation. Doesn't really affect me but it concerns me that if my daughter (born in UK and lived there until she was 15) decides one day she would like her kids and husband to experience life in the UK, it would be unlikely she would be able to do so, as she is not rich or in high income career. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ju...s-stark-choice

She is the only one married at the moment and to to be honest, unlikely to want to return but seems like the UK government is making the decision for her.

Hopefully this is just scaremongering on the part of the Guardian but with the UK government who knows. Know there is a lot of concern about it on the UK Yankee forum

To mods, if this is on the wrong forum, sorry, never sure if a topic is right for the trailer park or the main forum. Got shouted down the last time I posted something on this topic which I posted on the main forum.
I think it would be v. useful to link this post in the 'Moving Back to the UK Forum' on BE, and in particular, this thread:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=752713

(I'm not a Mod so can't do it! But thanks for the heads up anyway!)

TBH - I can't see this legislation holding up. The British Citizen would invariably argue in the Courts (there will certainly be a 'test case') that it interferes with his/her human rights to be able to have a family life.

Last edited by Englishmum; Jun 9th 2012 at 9:43 pm.
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Old Jun 9th 2012, 10:16 pm
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Default Re: News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

Don't worry. Every cloud has a silver lining. If your daughter lives in another EU country, or EEA for that matter, so Norway counts, for a year (not sure if you have to work there but should be no problem - teaching English as a second language usually provides a living) the European Union rules apply to non EU spouses and children, including for British citizens. And EU rules trump Home Office rules under these particular circumstances.

So, when you move over here with your non EU spouse from, say, Poland/Norway/Luxembourg/France/Spain/whichever EU country appeals, there are NO income or asset tests. Your spouse gets immediate residence - the Brits cannot refuse this under EU rules, and should apply for a residence card, for avoidance of doubt and to make sure he/she can leave and re-enter freely, as soon as practicable on arrival. Plus, the EU citizen has immediate access to our welfare state, as in full access, so can claim for him/her self, spouse and children if necessary, i.e. if the family can't get jobs straight away.

The silver lining? Hopefully, your daughter and her family will arrive in Britain bilingual. And will have had the pleasure of either sunning themselves for a year or learning how to ski on proper mountains.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/vi...ners-families/
discusses rules for British citizens and their foreign partners, but note:
"The information in this section is not for nationals of countries in the European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland. EEA nationals have free movement rights in the EEA, including the UK, but their family members who are not EEA nationals may need to apply for an EEA family permit before coming to the UK. The European nationals section contains more information."

For the family permit, this is the relevant section:
"Although the UK is a member of the EEA, a non-EEA family member of a British citizen should not generally come to the UK using an EEA family permit. However, a non-EEA family member of a British citizen living abroad can apply for an EEA family permit to join the British citizen on their return to the UK if:

the British citizen has been living in an EEA member state as a worker or self-employed person; and
the family member, if they are the British citizen's spouse or civil partner, has been living together with the British citizen in the EEA country.
"

And that section there pretty much covers every foreign national married to an EU citizen, including British, living somewhere in Europe prior to moving to Britain. Oh yes, and an EEA family permit is free to apply for!

It's outrageous, and not a little astonishing, that the Home Office would seek to discriminate against British people married to foreigners on economic grounds when everyone else in the EU who is an EU citizen (I think there are rules for Bulgarians and Romanians, but they are the only exceptions) doesn't need a visa for anyone in their family, just an EEA family permit if one or more of them are foreigners, to move over here AND can claim benefits from the day they arrive.

I don't have anything against Europeans who are not British, but how did we arrive at a stage where other Europeans have more right to a family life in Britain than British people?
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Old Jun 9th 2012, 11:06 pm
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Default Re: News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

The last government may have made monumental balls-ups.

It's a shame that the current government seems intent to do just as badly.
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Old Jun 9th 2012, 11:21 pm
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Default Re: News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

Regulations already require the sponsor to show that the immigrant will not become a public charge, this codifies an amount, the same as the US requires.

And probably many other countries as well.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the EU/Euro situation.

Hopefully freedom of movement will be retained at least with the core are.
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Old Jun 10th 2012, 2:04 am
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Default Re: News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

Originally Posted by Englishmum View Post
I think it would be v. useful to link this post in the 'Moving Back to the UK Forum' on BE, and in particular, this thread:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=752713

(I'm not a Mod so can't do it! But thanks for the heads up anyway!)

TBH - I can't see this legislation holding up. The British Citizen would invariably argue in the Courts (there will certainly be a 'test case') that it interferes with his/her human rights to be able to have a family life.
I agree. it's a ludicrous situation. All other EU nationals can move here to live, with their foreign spouses, for free - an EEA family permit doesn't cost anything - without either income or assets tests. Sure, there's a work around for the British citizen - they just need to come back here via a stint of a year or two living and working in the EU country of their choice. Maybe that's not so onerous really, but the idea that they should have to, just to get the same rights of abode in the UK that other EU nationals already have is unjust.

Maybe it is just a money raising exercise on the part of the Home Office? There does seem to be a social engineering aspect to it though. Technically, unless they have investment income, any British national wanting to come home isn't going to have any UK based income. Is the idea that the British person comes back alone first, gets a job paying over £25,700 a year, and then only can her husband/his wife apply to join her/him?
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Old Jun 10th 2012, 3:17 am
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Default Re: News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Regulations already require the sponsor to show that the immigrant will not become a public charge, this codifies an amount, the same as the US requires.
The US amount would require a burger flipping job with a little overtime. The UK amount is in a different league.
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Old Jun 10th 2012, 3:51 am
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Default Re: News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Regulations already require the sponsor to show that the immigrant will not become a public charge, this codifies an amount, the same as the US requires.

And probably many other countries as well.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the EU/Euro situation.

Hopefully freedom of movement will be retained at least with the core are.
But is that the issue? The British amount seems designed to prevent poorer Brits from returning here with their foreign born spouses. The American amount is based on a relatively low job that pretty much anyone could probably get in the States. Since no such onus is placed on any other European citizen seeking to live here with their foreign born spouse, why should Brits be singled out for "special" treatment?

Other Europeans are entitled to claim social welfare from the day they arrive, for ALL their accompanying immediate family, provided they have a national insurance number, i.e. have applied for it and obtained in online prior to coming here (a sensible action considering you need one in order to work) and irrespective of where the other members of the family are from. Why should Britons not have the same right?

Last edited by Deb568; Jun 10th 2012 at 3:52 am. Reason: spelling
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Old Jun 10th 2012, 5:17 am
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Default Re: News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

There is a reciprocal arrangement within the EU, it is more akin to someone moving from Northern Ireland to Scotland.

You can certainly argue the US amount is too low, but then the US Gov does not provide the same range of benefits and also has much stricter rules on new immigrants claiming what little is available.

I certainly doubt if there was anything I could claim when I came over whilst if we had moved the other way there is a huge range of benefits.

Last edited by Boiler; Jun 10th 2012 at 5:20 am.
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Old Jun 10th 2012, 6:26 am
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Default Re: News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
There is a reciprocal arrangement within the EU, it is more akin to someone moving from Northern Ireland to Scotland.

You can certainly argue the US amount is too low, but then the US Gov does not provide the same range of benefits and also has much stricter rules on new immigrants claiming what little is available.

I certainly doubt if there was anything I could claim when I came over whilst if we had moved the other way there is a huge range of benefits.
Then simply make those benefits unobtainable for new immigrants for a certain number of years.
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Old Jun 10th 2012, 4:08 pm
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Default Re: News UK news Immigration and asylum Stark choice under new immigration

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Then simply make those benefits unobtainable for new immigrants for a certain number of years.
Yes, it's a no-brainer. This present proposal already includes an extention of the probationary visa period from 2 to 5 years before ILR (permanent residence) which is when the foreign dependent is able to claim public benefits like paid maternity leave & jobseeker's allowance.

This raised financial threshold is simply & arbitrarily discriminatory against out-of-work or poorly employed Brits who marry foreigners (& especially foreigners w/ kids). Considering the state of the world economy that's simply crazy!
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