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Under 25k is the new magic figure from April 2012, that a couple with 1 child could claim welfare payments like Tax Credits. A drop from 42K I believe.

The idea is to make people work more, instead of relying on others to keep them. Anyone earning less than 25k who then brings in a foreign spouse, will be claiming welfare for them. The idea is to encourage people to get off their backsides and work. The overly generous welfare system that has appeared over the last decade, has made some people lazy.

The cynic in me wonders if those internet adverts for "Wanted: single Brits to join international forums" will be so popular if the new rules come in. Or they might have to amend the adverts to "Wanted; single Brits earning over 25K, to join internatioinal internet forums".

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From what I understand for the various reports:

The requirement is the same. The UK national must have a job to show they can support their foreign spouse.

Savings dissapear, as we see to often on this forum alone. They show UKBA they have savings to support themselves without using welfare, then they hide/spend this money as soon as they arrive and rush to claim welfare as soon as they step off the plane. Having a job will show they can support their family without asking for welfare.

Third party sponsorship will not stop them from claiming welfare for their foreign national partner as welfare is be based on that couples income. The income of their third party is not included in welfare claims.

Someone coming in on ILE, has instant access to welfare. The government will decide whether they will continue to allow a foreign national to have instant access to welfare as soon as they arrive.

Sweeping changes are happening as the UK can't afford the welfare bill and has massive debts to pay. Too many are living on welfare instead of working. The increase in taxes is only covering the interest on the UKs debts and is not paying off any of the debt itself.

I think it is focusing on the UKC being able to feed clothe and house their foreign national partner themselves.

As I have already said, the Welfare Reform Bill is changing the amounts of welfare paid out and who can and can't claim. It affects Brits (UK residents or not) and any foreign nationals hoping to claim welfare in the UK.

Squirrel

You're not allowed to claim benefits on Limited Leave to Remain anyway, which is about to become 5 years for all, so your arguement about people claiming benefits as soon as they arrive doesn't hold water. I find your xenophobic attitude that ALL immigrants come here with the sole purpose of living off the Government quite frightening. My US husband is as against undeserving welfare claimants as anyone else. He has actually been eligible for contributions-based Jobseekers Allowance in the past but has prefered to live off his credit card than claim and then pay off the card when he got a job.

Fixed figures like £25K don't allow any flexibility. Are we supposed to believe that on £25 you can live comfortably supoorting a non-working spouse but on £24,999 you're filling in benefit forms as soon as you land? If the current system of each case on its own merits isn't working, isn't that the fault of the IND officers who process the claims being too lenient? Wouldn't new guidlines for them and a strict adherance be fairer? And there is no way someone paying £1K a month rent and someone who owns their own home should be expected to have the same income.

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Wrong. You are confusing public funds with benefits. They can't claim in their own name, but they can claim a lot of income based welfare payments through their UK partner, if they are claiming welfare too. The UK partner can also claim extra welfare payments for any step children too that his foreign national spouse brings with them. At the moment, there is nothing to stop them all living off welfare, which is why the government wants to stop this as it is an unfair burden to the UK tax payers who keep themselves and claiments too. It is all very well people saying they won't claim, but as we see on here, it is a different story when they get into the country. Income amounts for immigration matched to the welfare cut offs, will ensure they don't. Everything that gets abused gets stopped eventually.

The only foreign nationals who are not allowed to claim any income based welfare payments at all, are those non-EUs who don't have a UK or EU spouse/partner and don't have ILR.

Try reading my posts again. I don't like working to keep Brit and EU people who are too lazy to work either. It is those non-EU foreign nationals who want to claim welfare when they arrive in the UK, who will be affected by these new rules (if they go through). The new rules won't make a jot of difference to those UKCs who work and keep themselves. Like tends to attract like.

In principle, yes, for some benefits from 2012 and depending on other factors, such as how many children you bring into the UK with you. I assume that is why MAC has mentioned different salaries for those with children. Income based benefits have a cut off fiqure too.

It's was more a case of the UK immigration rules being made too easy and the welfare being made really generous. The UK was always seen as one of the easiest countries to move to and now the UK is bringing in tougher immigrations rules, as other western countries have already done, a long time before the UK.

A lot of welfare claiments now get more on welfare than they would from working; that is going to change too. The welfare limit will be brought to a maximum of 26k per year of welfare, per family and there will be courses; forced worked for benefits; more medicals; for continual claiments. At the moment there is no limit to the amount of welfare a family can claim and a family can move into the most expensive part of London, have a rent of 2k per week and welfare will pay it, plus give them another 2-3k in cash every month, tax free. At the moment, some families are claiming 120k (not a typo) per year, in welfare.

These seem to be the new guidelines that they want: stopping foreign nationals being a burden on the UK taxpayer.

People who own their own home or have homes with mortgages, can claim welfare too. Income based welfare payments are based on......income.
There are people in the UK who have been getting the interest on their morgages paid for them, for years, regardless of the interest rate. That changed last year (although many claiments said they wouldn't dare do it) with new strict rules on the interest rate and the amount of the mortgage, welfare will be paid on. Under the new rules, those that MEWED (mortgage equity withdrawal - took money out of their hosue and spent it on cars, holidays ect) can no longer get the interest paid by welfare, on what are really loans with their mortgage.

The rental welfare rates have dropped too, after the rents were forced up by the last government. These rules start straight away for new claiments or those that move property, while the rest got 1 year and then 9 months from the aniversary of their claim, before the new wlefare housing rules affect them. So from 2012, these new lower welfare paid rents will come in for all. New rules for those living in social housing too and no more 'houses for life' for those claiming social (council) houses.

The UK is cutting it's welfare bill.

manny1980

I believe you have not read the proposed report properly my friend as they clearly stated discarding that option in their equation for income proposal because in majority of cases, the applicants are abroad where as sponsor is in the UK. But there are scenarios where they both sponsor, a UK citizen and the foreign spouse are intending to come together. Until the Govt. explicitly states that the sponsor must come to the UK get a job over 26K or 18K before inviting their spouse this will remain an open question.


Again that's your opinion as every individual is different some are good savers and some aren't does not mean ever single sponsor rushes for benefits. Beside if this is the problem then the Govt should just ban all non UK passport holders from gaining any kind of benefits. Of course the Govt. is happy to allow asylum seekers with open arms and provide them all kinds of benefits, evidence of this is in the media.

Beside, a job can disappear too right after the spouse gets the immigration, so that logic does not completely work.

Once again this is your opinion as you are assuming every single sponsor will claim benefits as many don't but I am sure many do. Formula: Please be clear in your statements by differentiating between stating facts and in your opinions.

Sweeping changes will also be more effective if they do the same with the EU citizens flooding into the country. I don't have the numbers but, IMHO, it is not difficult to work out that the immigrants from the non-EU nations are a small fraction of the total influx of immigrants in the UK from the EU.

The core reason behind these changes is not to prevent benefit abuse but, in my view, to prevent rising immigration population in the UK...the Govt of course will not openly admit it for politically correct reasons.

Squirrel

I think you are wrong, I believe UK citizens can only claim benefits for themselves, not any extra for time-limited dependants.

Has any research been done into exactly how many non EU foreign spouses claim benefits? I didn't see anything in the report about that. So it could be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

The fact is the UK cannot legally do anything about EU immigrants and asylum seekers claiming welfare so they are going after the only group they can, most of whom have no intention to sponge off the government.

What's wrong exactly with adopting the US scheme of getting the UK spouse and if necessary a co-sponsor to sign a legal affadavit of support so the government can come after them if the foreign spouse claims benefits. Seems to have worked fine in the US for many many years. And you know what? The number of sponsors they have to actually come after is miniscule. Which proves my point that most foreign spouses just want to be with their partner, not sponge off the government, and everybody else is going to be punished for the tiny percentage that do.

I don't buy your arguement that £1 a year should make the difference between being able to live with your spouse or not. What are you supposed to do if you work full time already and earn £24,999? Try and get a part time job paying £1 a year?

pennylessinindia

lets hope all of you who are so vociferous now made comments on the consultation earlier in the year

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You're on UK-yakee. Why don't you ask them how many people get working tax credits or child tax credits in their UK partners name? Tax Credits are income based welfare payments and are based on both adults.

The government have just stopped UK nationals from claiming extra money from the Working Tax Credits welfare payment, if their foreign national partner doesn't have children. But if they have children, they can have extra money for their foreign nationall spouse from working tax credits, child tax credits and child benefits, housing benefit (or LHA) and council tax benefit, even if the child/ren is a step child.

Haven't you seen all the posts on UK-yankee warning people to make sure their child benefits are in the UKC name as a foreign national isn't allowed to claim in their own name, but their partner can in their name? Or the posts taking about how they stay at home with the children while their UKC spouse works and claims tax credits for them all? If the foreign national partner isn't working and the UKC partner is claiming welfare payments, who did you think was keeping the foreign national?

Cut offs (we have to have cut offs) for Working Tax Credits is something like 7k for a single person and 17k for a couple.
i.e. Brit works earns 6k and claims welfare for WTCs as a single person. Foreign national partner arrives with a step child. Brit now claims extra WTCs (as the two of them have less than 17K on the welfare partner rate) plus child tax credits for the foreign national child, child benefit, a bigger house from housing benefits. Foreign national has 'no recourse to public funds' in their passpost, but they can claim extra welfare through their UKC partner's claim.


Do you really want the UK to be as strict as the US with spouse visas? No spouse who has had problems with immigration allowed to enter if they overstayed; no conviction is ever spent, so your spouse can't come here; no one with mental health problems, not even a spouse; no free healthcare: no existing health conditions covered on works health policies, so no health treament for those condidtions unless you pay; no - very little, welfare support?

Wasn't it you that said that your existing health conditions meant you couldn't live in the US with your US husband?

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I did. I'm not sure the government ever listen though as they seem to bring in most of what they said they were going to do, on the other consulations.

Squirrel

[QUOTE=formula;9738585

Do you really want the UK to be as strict as the US with spouse visas? No spouse who has had problems with immigration allowed to enter if they overstayed; no conviction is ever spent, so your spouse can't come here; no one with mental health problems, not even a spouse; no free healthcare: no existing health conditions covered on works health policies, so no health treament for those condidtions unless you pay; no - very little, welfare support?

Wasn't it you that said that your existing health conditions meant you couldn't live in the US with your US husband?[/QUOTE]

It's not a case of all or nothing. We don't have to adopt every single policy the US has, but the Affadavit of Support is a good one and the level isn't set too high. I would have had no problem signing one for my husband and although my earnings are good now, they weren't so good 13 years ago (I'm in the same job but have had quite a few increases and upgrades). I'm not 100% sure I would have been able to get the visa for my husband at a 1998 version of £25K, but I was certainly making much more than 1.25% of the poverty level.

You should stop reading UK Yankee if it annoys you so much. I don't go there any more. Anecdotal evidence of a few people claiming benefits is no substitute for real research into how many non EU spouses claim any benefits for their new family. Besides which on American Expats I've heard of very few cases of people wanting to claim benefits.

I personally know someone who married a USC and he works and they do get child tax credits, but she already had 3 children when she married him and was able to stop claiming benefits for the entire family because he was working. Had she remained unmarried it wold have cost the UK taxpayer a lot more. So it is not all black and white, he's now supporting the whole family with only a small contribution for her children compared with how much she was claiming before she married and the child tax credit is for her children not for him.

johnh009

I sponsored my wife from Canada and it was quite straight forward, especially if you have been married for more than four years. Getting all of the paperwork together was the hardest part. This you could start now. These are only proposals and, as usual, they have not thought everything through. On saying that, I would not delay as I do not think it will get any easier. You do not need a job and there are no hard and fast rules as to how much money you must have. Everything is at the descretion of the official processing your case.

Here is the form you need to complete with the guidance notes, it will give you an idea of the information and documents you need to provide:


http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...isas/vaf4a.pdf

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...b-guidance.pdf

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Here are some facts for you. Income based welfare payments are based on income. Some welfare payments like Tax Credits, don't even have a capital threashhold, so you could have 100k in the bank and still claim these income based welfare payments, as they only count the interest on the savings for those welfare payments.

If someone is employable to Uk employers, if they lose their job they have a good chance of getting another. If they aren't wanted by UK employers, their savings will soon go.

That's your opinion, but if you want facts the office of statistics shows that the higher numbers of immigrants to the UK are from non-EU countries.

I think it is both. Immigration is nudging 70million and the UK resources can't cope with those numbers. The governments immigration policies are clearly showing that they only want foreign nationals who will help the country. The Welfare Reform bill will do it's bit too in cutting numbers.

Squirrel

But that is including all work visa applicants not just spouses which number under 40,000 per year, and if you include the number going the other way (Brits marrying a non EU spouse and going to the spouse's country), the number could be much much smaller.

I don't see how punishing everyone 'in case' is a fair policy. Using such a policy we could for example say men commit 95% of crime for 49% of the population (made up figures but they do commit a much higher percentage of crime than women), therefore let's incarcerate every male over the age of 14 and the UK will become a much safer place. Undoubtedly it would but at what cost? The vast majority locked up unfairly because they 'could' commit a crime?

As to policies of people on high incomes being able to claim benefits, if that is the case it is the benefit system that needs looking at and this practice should be halted, rather than blaming all welfare abuse problems on immigrants. I know of many British citizens who live on benefits and there is nothing wrong with them.

According to the survey 3 of the biggest nationalities of non EU spouse applicants for a visa were the US, Pakistan and India. Now anyone from the US is used to strict rules about welfare, indeed many see it as shameful (my DH does and it is why he would not claim unemployment benefit). I cannot believe any but a tiny proportion of Americans would come to claim welfare. As to Asians, they are among the most hard working people in our society, hence most local shops being run by them and being open until 11pm. Our next door convenience store certainly is.

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Nobody knows what new immigration laws will be brought in for families. The government ran a consulation, which is now closed, but they still haven't said what the new laws will be.

I don't think they have even stated what the new laws are going to be the previous consulataion they held, for those trying to settle in the UK on visas such as the Tier 2 visas?

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I love reading Uk yankee and the lengths they go to to get to the UK. The guy I mentioned before who arrived in the UK in the summer and who said his plan was to get ILR and then claim welfare; it seems he and his new UK wife don't get on. Now he is asking if he can get ILR through domestic violence and then stay in the UK.