My Surinder Singh plan, please help with any holes

Old Jun 27th 2013, 4:05 am
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Default My Surinder Singh plan, please help with any holes

Hello everyone, I'm going to describe my master plan of eventually living in England with my NZ partner, please help with any gaps which I may need to think about. It would be very much appreciated as I have spent hours on end researching and still find conflicting information so need some things cleared. Thanks!


1. We are staying in NZ for another 1-2 years

2. Applying for marriage visit visa - we will get married in England and stay up to 6 months with an outward journey planned to Ireland.


3. Living in Ireland with my NZ partner for 6 months or however long it takes.

Does anyone know whether we would require Residence cards for Ireland? Is it a necessity or just a helpful addition while applying for a family permit for the UK? I know it takes up to 6 months to process a residence card so if needed we would apply straight away. So if he received the residence card after I worked for 6 months, is this OK, or do you need to work for 6 months AS WELL as hold a residence card for 6 months?

He could apply for a working holiday visa for Ireland if it's necessary? I have been told this would maybe conflict with family permit for UK. Is there any need to get a working visa or can I assume that he can automatically work and live in Ireland as he will be my family member?

I've just read that my non-EEU family member would need to register in Ireland: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...n_ireland.html

He would get a stamp 4 which would entitle him to work, not sure if we have to pay a fee for this - again, finding conflicting information


4. Moving back to England

Would you recommend applying for the family permit in advance or just getting the ferry from England with the relevant documentation?





Thanks so much for any input!!!xxx

Last edited by robynxo; Jun 27th 2013 at 4:35 am. Reason: Additions
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Old Jun 27th 2013, 9:34 am
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Default Re: My Surinder Singh plan, please help with any holes

Yes, your partner will require a residence card for Ireland (in order to stay there). This will be free of charge (except any postage fees) and SHOULD save the need for any family permit visas when travelling within the EU.
In the directive there is no reference to any specific amount of time you need to be working in the other country. I've not seen any cases setting a precedent there either. 3-6 months is far less likely to raise eyebrows in the UK than 3-6 days Also - the stamp 4 (if that is the EEA family stamp) may be enough technically (not sure) but having a residence card will again make your life easier.

No - don't get any kind of visa for Ireland. Your spouse can enter for free, and should do as that way they get more rights and fulfil the prerequisities for using Singh.

There are no fees permissible for any of this except for postage. If it takes more than a few weeks for any of the steps to be processed you can escalate your case via http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/help/index_en.htm

Not sure on the rules for applying for a family permit from Ireland (CTA). I know that technically one is not needed when coming from Schengen as long as you have the residence card for the other country, BUT in reality life is easier at the UK border when you have one. There are, however, no border controls in the CTA. Within Schengen no visa is needed (just keep your Schengen residence card) so I'd guess the CTA is the same
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Old Jun 27th 2013, 9:42 am
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Default Re: My Surinder Singh plan, please help with any holes

Originally Posted by englishguygoinghome View Post
Yes, your partner will require a residence card for Ireland (in order to stay there). This will be free of charge (except any postage fees) and SHOULD save the need for any family permit visas when travelling within the EU.
In the directive there is no reference to any specific amount of time you need to be working in the other country. I've not seen any cases setting a precedent there either. 3-6 months is far less likely to raise eyebrows in the UK than 3-6 days Also - the stamp 4 (if that is the EEA family stamp) may be enough technically (not sure) but having a residence card will again make your life easier.

No - don't get any kind of visa for Ireland. Your spouse can enter for free, and should do as that way they get more rights and fulfil the prerequisities for using Singh.

There are no fees permissible for any of this except for postage. If it takes more than a few weeks for any of the steps to be processed you can escalate your case via http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/help/index_en.htm

Not sure on the rules for applying for a family permit from Ireland (CTA). I know that technically one is not needed when coming from Schengen as long as you have the residence card for the other country, BUT in reality life is easier at the UK border when you have one. There are, however, no border controls in the CTA. Within Schengen no visa is needed (just keep your Schengen residence card) so I'd guess the CTA is the same
Brilliant. Sounds very doable and I won't be in any rush once we're in Ireland so can wait around for the residence card and getting a family permit before going to the UK border, will make our lives easier like you said

Thanks so much for your help. A lot of weight off my mind now I know what to do in advance!
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Old Jun 27th 2013, 11:27 am
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Default Re: My Surinder Singh plan, please help with any holes

Originally Posted by englishguygoinghome View Post
Yes, your partner will require a residence card for Ireland (in order to stay there). This will be free of charge (except any postage fees) and SHOULD save the need for any family permit visas when travelling within the EU.
In the directive there is no reference to any specific amount of time you need to be working in the other country. I've not seen any cases setting a precedent there either. 3-6 months is far less likely to raise eyebrows in the UK than 3-6 days Also - the stamp 4 (if that is the EEA family stamp) may be enough technically (not sure) but having a residence card will again make your life easier.

No - don't get any kind of visa for Ireland. Your spouse can enter for free, and should do as that way they get more rights and fulfil the prerequisities for using Singh.

There are no fees permissible for any of this except for postage. If it takes more than a few weeks for any of the steps to be processed you can escalate your case via http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/help/index_en.htm

Not sure on the rules for applying for a family permit from Ireland (CTA). I know that technically one is not needed when coming from Schengen as long as you have the residence card for the other country, BUT in reality life is easier at the UK border when you have one. There are, however, no border controls in the CTA. Within Schengen no visa is needed (just keep your Schengen residence card) so I'd guess the CTA is the same
Brilliant! Thanks so much my mind is very settled now. I will be no rush when we're in Ireland so can happily fill out all the forms and apply for everything to make our lives easier. Thanks so much for your help.
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Old Jun 27th 2013, 1:51 pm
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Default Re: My Surinder Singh plan, please help with any holes

Originally Posted by robynxo View Post
Brilliant. Sounds very doable and I won't be in any rush once we're in Ireland so can wait around for the residence card and getting a family permit before going to the UK border, will make our lives easier like you said
Yes, it would seem the Singh path will work best for those who are in no hurry, and have no big deadlines to meet to move to the UK.

Each EEA permit, the RC and the FP, though free, can & sometimes do, take up to 6 months, and there are stories on Immigrationboards.com of folks who have waited longer for both...

Plus it can take time for the UK citizen to find a job. However, at least there's no salary or savings requirement, and any documented job will do.

Best of luck, Robyn!
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Old Jun 27th 2013, 9:59 pm
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Default Re: My Surinder Singh plan, please help with any holes

Originally Posted by WEBlue View Post
Yes, it would seem the Singh path will work best for those who are in no hurry, and have no big deadlines to meet to move to the UK.

Each EEA permit, the RC and the FP, though free, can & sometimes do, take up to 6 months, and there are stories on Immigrationboards.com of folks who have waited longer for both...

Plus it can take time for the UK citizen to find a job. However, at least there's no salary or savings requirement, and any documented job will do.

Best of luck, Robyn!
Yeah it's a change of plans for me, but I'm going to try and make the most of it. I will hopefully have some good work experience after leaving New Zealand in a couple of years which will help me find work in Ireland. And it's not too far from England so can always visit family. 6 months is nothing in grand scheme of things I feel incredibly lucky to have learned of this method! Thanks for the advice
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Old Jun 28th 2013, 12:48 pm
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Default Re: My Surinder Singh plan, please help with any holes

I sent you a pm
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Old Jun 28th 2013, 1:03 pm
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Default Re: My Surinder Singh plan, please help with any holes

Originally Posted by morayeel View Post
I sent you a pm
I answered
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