Speedwell

Hi, folks, I finally decided to take the plunge and start doing the necessary research. I am the US citizen, but as my husband is the "oh it will all work out somehow" type and I'm the anxious type, and I handled all of the paperwork to get him his green card, I seem to be the designated documentation assistant This is my starting point.

We are thinking of trying to move home in six months to a year. My husband is Northern Irish and holds dual citizenship. I have looked into applying for recognition of my Hungarian citizenship that I hold through my father, but I am having a hard time getting my grandparents' documentation from Hungary, even more so because I don't speak the minimum required amount of Hungarian to be approved (thanks, Dad). Going the EU spouse route is therefore not realistic for us.

OK, I just typed five more long paragraphs of facts about my situation but I realized I might as well hand Border Control my name and photograph and say "I am trying to legally finagle my way into your lovely country", so I'm going to have to ask my questions piecemeal elsewhere.

I'm thinking Surinder Singh might be our best bet though I'm not really sure how it would work out in our case. I will be doing the usual archive binge, of course, but if you can point me to some online resources that you think will really shorten my research time, I would be so grateful.

Leads to good tips for looking for work in the UK or Ireland would also be so appreciated. Transfer through our work is not going to be an option, I'm afraid.

If you have questions, great, I am really not sure where to jump next.

Thanks, folks. <3

Edit: Did I just read that there was a ruling barring a Northern Irish spouse who has never resided elsewhere in the EU from using Surinder Singh through Ireland? Please give details!!

Speedwell

Hmm. I have been reading some other information on the UK site.

I have a 401K account that is fully vested and has more than 75000 GBP in it. All but about 5000 GBP of it has been held for more than 6 months. Can I use this to satisfy the asset requirement?

BritInParis

How short of the target are you with your Hungarian language skills? Do you think a period of time spent in Hungary putting it into practice would help? Qualifying for Hungarian citizenship and therefore an EU passport would definitely be the easiest way to go.

rebeccajo

You can but you might have to cash that puppy out right before you apply.

They've relaxed the rules on these things in the last few months. In my mind, they are non-sensical. They want to see cash.

If I didn't want to cash out an asset such as a 401K, I'd get reputable immigration advice before I plunged in.

Welcome to the planning ahead club, btw.

WEBlue

Speedwell, have you read through the EEA Route FAQ on immigrationboards.com? It's a good place to start when considering the details of Surinder Singh, and decideing whether SS will work for you and your husband or not. Read the whole thread--it's all useful to know--but especially focus on the 6th post, which deals with Singh:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=114867

Good luck in your research.

Speedwell

Thanks, folks, that's a tremendous help. My husband suggested an alternate plan of about two or three years out to give him a chance to get a work history, some more money saved up, and possibly even a shot at citizenship for him. He also says very firmly that the current immigration restrictions will be seen to be unsustainable and politically unpopular and they will not stand. I suppose he would know better than I would. So we're going to give things a little time to see how the cookie crumbles.

In any case, that does give me a chance to learn Hungarian (I can just about count, ask for the bathroom, navigate to the airport/the police station/my hotel, and tell a taxi where to go) and try to locate that elusive paperwork, and to build more in my 401K, which cannot hurt no matter what I wind up doing with it.

Thanks for your great posts.

robin1234

"a postakocsis már villámcsapás!"
"Postakocsi az enyém már villámcsapás!"

One of these should work but I don't know which ??

MrMuffin

Hi Speedwell and welcome

So if you are going to make the move I would say (IMO) do it sooner than later. Don't do what I did and just assume that the rules will stay the same or get better for you. I joined this forum 5 years ago when my USC wife was preggers with our little girl. We had both decided to make the move. But at the time we had only been married for 3 years and one of the forum members said wait for another year until we had been married 4 years before making the move... as this would make the application process easier and quicker for my wife to become a UK citizen.

So life happened and we waited. And then we got distracted by the growing kid, as you do. And then we got pregnant again. Tick tick. Then we got serious about wanting to move again because of the kids and low and behold it was August 2012, just a month after the new rules came into effect. Great timing! So the task of moving now had become far more HUGE (thanks to the new requirements) and it's already taken a year plus to try and get it together. During that time we have totally given up hope once for several reasons, but now we're back on track and determined to move back over to the UK next year.

I guess what I am saying is that I wish the 'unpopular and unsustainable policies' would go away too. But sadly who knows? Who knows if the policies change again and become even worse? I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer but I've already been burned once and I'd hate for the same thing to happen to you. It sounds like you're in a good financial spot so in my humble opinion... chirp or get off the perch (wishing you all the best!!). Cheers, M

Speedwell

Thanks so much for sharing your experience, MrMuffin. For what it's worth, I agree with you, but hubby is much more sanguine (he always is). Since I can't exactly do it without him, he's the deciding vote.

LOL, Robin1234, köszönöm szépen.

Incidentally, I just talked to a more than usually knowledgeable representative at Merrill-Lynch and got some good advice about using the 401K to help satisfy the financial requirement for UK immigration. This might be of use to others who are also wondering this.

The governing rule is in the financial requirements document available here http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...df?view=Binary and it's section 7.2.4, which says, For example, in the UK a "stocks and shares" Individual Savings Account (ISA) does meet the definition of a savings account and the funds can be considered as cash savings if all the requirements above are met. Likewise, a pension savings account from which savings can be immediately withdrawn (like the 401K in the US).

However, there may be a catch. According to the account rep, the money is not immediately liquid because it is really "the company's" account, even though I am fully vested. It may fall under paragraph 7.2.5, which states, An example of an account that generally does not meet all of these requirements is a brokerage account in which funds are used by stockbrokers to purchase shares for the account holder. It does not meet the criteria of being a current account or a savings account. If anyone actually knows whether this is actually the case, I'd really, really appreciate your input.

His recommendation (if I choose to use this money) was that six months before submitting my paperwork, I roll over the full amount of the 401K into an IRA, which protects the cash from tax and penalties. I would have to quit my job to qualify to do this, however, according to applicable US law (I would have to leave the money in the 401K while I was still with the company unless one of four or five predetermined hardship cases that would not cover "I need the money to get out of the US" apply). The paragraph that covers this is 7.2.6, which states, Alternatively, the investments such as those held in a brokerage account can be liquidated into cash savings prior to the application - see paragraphs 7.2.8. to 7.2.9. Interestingly, 7.2.7 says you can use the full prepenalty amount in the IRA, since it provides that If a penalty would be deducted from the cash savings if they were to be withdrawn from the account without notice, the amount of the penalty should not be deducted from the level of savings held at date of application. (Paragraphs 7.2.8 and 7.2.9 delineate what kinds of evidence are acceptable to prove the funds were held by the right people for the right amount of time.)

In the event cash actually needs to be withdrawn from the IRA, the minimum necessary amount plus 20 percent US tax and 10 percent penalty should be taken out and the remainder, if any, left for future needs (i.e. retirement). This will minimize losses.

robin1234

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