formula

Their BRP does those checks.

You should bring your biometric residence permit with you when you access healthcare in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigr...ation/overview



Your BRP will include:

your name, date and place of birth
your fingerprints and a photo of your face (this is your ‘biometric information’)
your immigration status and any conditions of your stay
whether you can access public funds (eg benefits and health services)
https://www.gov.uk/biometric-residence-permits/overview

not2old

The IHS is a total waste of resources IMO

This whole £200/yr surcharge is absolutely stupid IMO, and I say that because just look at the number of people that would be paying this - do we know the guessed numbers of it?

Then there will be a government department, the infrastructure, folks getting paid to collect small amounts of money, the paper trail, visa etc. total waste for 'a settlement visa'. Why not simply increase the visa cost instead of a separate IHS type charge.

I think for those using the NHS, it will cost less than the infrastructure cost to manage & maintain the IHS.

Look at the 2015/16 UK budget

From my post #22 Health Surcharge fir spouse visa
http://britishexpats.com/forum/citiz.../#post11640598

2015/16 expenditures & revenue

Expenditures: welfare bill £111.7 billion, health £135.1 billion, pensions £154.7 billion

Revenue: income and capital tax £224.3 billion, NIC's £112.7 billion, Business & other revenue £46 billion

Do you think charging £200/yr for the IHS will offset those using the NHS?

The bigger picture is how the government will get the £12 billion in welfare savings and not some small charges to people through the IHS fees.

Election 2015: Conservative benefit cut options leaked - BBC News

formula

The IHS goes in a pot and the NHS area draw out that pot when someone shows their BRP for free NHS. The IHS can rise according to that data. I think we all realise that it will rise from £200 a year.

Half a billion a year given back to the NHS seems to be the present target under the Immigration Act 2014 of now being able to identify people who can't use the NHS for free. 200m from the IHS, based on the previous number of annual immigrants wanting visas of 6 months are more: 200m from now being able to bill other EEA countries and now being able to identify those EEAs and their family members who can't have free NHS and will now be using their own countries EHICs. 100m from billing those who are identified as needing to pay and will use their private insurance to pay or will pay their own NHS bills at 150% of the NHS rate.


There is an annual welfare cap that started April 2015. Parliament agreed to that a few years ago and the 2015/6 tax year was set as the start. Whichever party formed government this year would have to make welfare cuts/choices to keep to the UK's welfare bill cap.

Despite this cap that started last month, Labour would never say where they would make these benefit cuts that they would have to do to keep to the annual welfare bill cap. Nor would they say whether they would reinstate the instant access to benefits for EEAs that they had when last in government or whether they would keep to the Conservatives new rules for EEAs of no benefits until they have contributed to the UK (as other EEA countries do). As we now know, UKIP voters came from traditional Labour voters and not the Conservative voters. Lib Dem areas turned to the Conservatives. Not that Labour would ever get control of England but they lost many of their traditional English voters too this time.

Here is the free movement sites take on how the Conservative manifesto for the election (which they intend to implement in full) will affect immigrants wanting to get to/ stay in the UK.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/cons...-human-rights/

not2old

I'm not disputing that there should be a charge or levy on non residents or immigrants that want to use the NHS until the time they become 'proper residents' - what is a waste of resources & taxpayers money is creating another level of government, one more department, one more infrastructure which likely has employees, managers, directors & an MP managing it.

The 'settlement visa' just increasd from £1093 to £1500, then at FLR another £1500 with another £1500 at ILR.

Bureaucratic nonsense & a waste of taxpayers money

On the IHS - if they want to charge £200/yr, then simply stick it in the visa fee - spin the £200 off to the NHS in an internal ledger transfer & get rid of the stupid separate waste of nonsense.

Application for a visa simply by adding £200 to the visa cost for anyone at visitor, settlement even the EEA/EU's coming in

BritInParis

You are retreading the same ground already covered here, which I noticed you never responded to. Providing you have a right to reside in the UK then you will free access to the NHS. Nothing has changed in this regard. Your BRP won't tell someone whether you have paid your IHS. It doesn't need to because you won't receive a BRP if you aren't legally resident, either having paid your IHS, been issued a IHS number but not charged or being exempted from the process altogether.

formula

Nothing has changed but saying that having a right to reside gives free NHS is incorrect. Having a right to reside in the UK does not give people free access to the NHS. Google it.

Here is the CAB on self sufficient qualified persons in the UK. I've put the relevant parts of the page to show that your claim isn't true.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/be...esidence-test/

If you're self-sufficient, it means you have enough funds to support yourself, and any other family members, without having to rely on means-tested benefits or other services that come from public funds, such as NHS treatment.


You will also have to prove that you have comprehensive sickness insurance that will pay for your healthcare if you fall ill.

Comprehensive sickness insurance

Private health insurance should be accepted as proof of comprehensive sickness insurance

If you have private health insurance and you get ill in the UK, your insurance company should pay for you to have treatment.

You may also have comprehensive sickness insurance if your home state will pay back the NHS for any health costs you incur in the UK. You may need advice about whether this will happen.




Students Qualified Person. From the Your Europe health care site.
I've put the relevant bits again to show that your "Providing you have a right to reside in the UK then you will free access to the NHS." simply isn't true.

EU – Health insurance when living, working abroad - Your Europe

If you go to another EU country for your studies, research work, a work placement or vocational training, you must have comprehensive health insurance in your host country.



Check with the health insurance provider or with National Contact Point in your home country whether they will cover the cost of your healthcare abroad for the full duration of your stay!



Your dependants can also enjoy the same rights as you.


If you are being sent to a university or research institution in another EU country for a temporary period by your university or research institute of origin, then you will remain under your home healthcare scheme for the time you are posted. You should apply for the EHIC card, or for an S1 form, before leaving.



As long as your home health insurance covers you during your stay abroad, administrative procedures can be simpler if you have a valid European Health Insurance Card.





AND ANOTHER IMPORTANT BIT from the your europe site

National healthcare systems differ greatly within Europe

EU countries are free to establish their own rules on entitlement to benefits and services.



I don't understand what you are saying???

BritInParis

As I have already said self-sufficient EEA citizens without comprehensive sickness insurance don't have a right to reside in the UK beyond three months. That's why that cannot access the NHS or be eligible for permanent residence after five years.

I don't think you really understand what you're saying to be perfectly frank.

formula

I notice that you have ignored all the evidence I gave to show that this is not true.

Please stop telling people that. I know people should check themselves and those links I gave showing your claim was wrong only took only took seconds to find, but if people have bought into the myth that the NHS is free for all, they could end up with thousands of of pounds worth of debt if they failed to get full insurance. As posts on the immigrationboards forums are showing, although they get little sympathy from other posters on there for being so stupid as to think the NHS is free for all.


One sad one recently from an elderly Spanish couple who recently moved to the UK. Luckly they were raised in the EU so they already knew that the UK's NHS wasn't free to all and also knew that their that their Spanish citizenship alone wouldn't allow them a right to reside in the UK past 3 months. They correctly moved with thousands in savings and with an S1 for Spain to pay all their to pay for all NHS bills, to have a right to reside past 3 months as a Self Sufficient Qualified persons. They correctly used their Spanish S1 for Spain to pay for the husband's stay in a UK hospital. Unfortunately what the wife didn't know was that she could not get free help from the UK's social services for her husband and she was in dire need of help, but they were refused.

Finding out that the NHS isn't free for all all who reside is the least of their worries for some. Plenty of posts too from EEA citizens saying they have been told they have had a letter from HMRC saying they don't have a right to reside in the UK. They have been refused UK benefits for their children. They have no money to pay their rent as their all UK benefits have now stopped even though they had been receiving these for years. They are now homeless/have just arrived with their families and are homeless and have been refused benefits and that councils are also refusing to house them. It's crazy that people are up and moving their lives on something they heard or read on the internet instead of checking government or Europe sites for themselves.


Most people raised in an EU country know this, but for the others:-

Free NHS for all, even if you have a right to reside in the UK? = Not true.

Having citizenship of another EEA country means you can just go and live in another EEA country? = Only if you are, and you remain, a Qualified Person.

Since you brought it up, this isn't the first time other posters have had to step in and correct some of your posts.

BritInParis

Because it's irrelevant. Yes, self-sufficient persons residing in the UK under EEA rules do need CSI to access the NHS, but that is because they don't have a right to reside beyond three months if they don't have CSI. It's not because they have a right to reside but no access to the NHS because of a lack of CSI. It's an subtle but important difference. I have explained this to you now three or four times and I'm afraid I've run out of ways to rephrase it.

The NHS is not 'free for all'. It's free for peoples who have to right to reside and do reside in the UK. Self-sufficient EEA citizens without CSI do not have a right to reside beyond three months.

No, actually true.

If you have a right to reside then you are, ergo, a qualified person.

You'll find that when I've been incorrect in the past I've always been happy to be corrected. It's just a pity you don't seem to feel the same way.

not2old

BritinParis, if you could please answer the following, with a brief explanation would be appreciated .... thanks

From April 2015 going forward & under the present rules, are folks that acquire a UK (ordinary) residence card entitled to free NHS without having the need for CSI or to have to pay the IHS?

For someone arriving in the UK via the SS route with an FP that also has an EHIC from a member state, who then in turn get their UK (ordinary) residence card - are these folks allowed access to free NHS without having to have CSI?

Are person(s) that settle in the UK via the 'spouse of a settled person' allowed to apply for a UK (ordinary) residence card even before they reach the FLR stage?

formula

Brit, as those links I posted clearly showed in my post number 81 in this thread, they need to use their CSIs or EHIC if they are Self Sufficient to pay. The same for their family member who may be working in the UK but only has a right to reside and work because they are in the UK with a Self Sufficient EEA. As those links also stated, they can have what their EEA citizen can have.

As my links also clearly showed in post 81, EEA students have a right to reside but need to have health insurance to pay for their healthcare or their own countries EHIC so that their own country pays.

Before 2010(?) the UK let Self Sufficients and Students use the NHS for free. They was a lot posted on forums when that stopped and it was pointed out by other posters that it was legal as it was always in the free movement laws and now the UK were implementing them. As also said on that quote and link I gave, the countries get to choose.

The UK have just changed so that family memebers of EEA students now can't have free NHS either. Before, they could in the UK even though their EEA student family member couldn't.


It is not. The links I posted told you that.

Those who arrive in the UK under UK laws also don't have free use of the NHS just because they have a visa that gives them a right to reside. Some will pay the IHS and then get free NHS for most things, while others will need to buy insurance to pay for their NHS or be billed.

Those who have PR, ILR, UK citizenship, are a Worker Qualified Person, a Self Employed Qualified Person, a Jobseeker Qualified Person (they get a limited time now) can have free use of the NHS. For the Qualified Persons, as said above and on the Europe website link I gave, their family members can have what they can have.

Those non-EU citizens trying to use EU laws to get into an EU country, Chen, Singh, Zambrano ect; those rules change so much on what the member states will and won't give them, it is difficult to keep up. Although what I have noticed is that it seems that if the ruling goes against a member state, then they often don't apply it retrospectivley. When that member state then changes it laws to go in their favour, they often apply the changes retrospectively. And again, member states seem to give different things on those routes. Even in the UK i.e. some on those routes get free NHS in some of the 4 UK countries and not in the others.

Novocastrian

^ please give it a rest.

Love,

Novo.

BritInParis

What are you defining as 'a UK ordinary residence card'?

My understanding is that CSI is not required in Surinder Singh cases regardless of whether a sponsor works or not on their return to the UK because British citizens do not need to remain a qualified person when they return to the UK because they have Right of Abode.

From April 2015 anyone entering the UK on a spousal visa will need to obtain their BRP within 10 days of arrival providing biometric enrolment has been rolled out in their country of residence.

not2old

By "ordinary", I mean the 'residence card' which folks can apply for coming from the EU/EEA or via the SS route.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-re...-card/overview

My reference or question on that point excludes the 'permanent residence' card. That is why I used the term 'ordinary' residence which some EU countries use not to mean 'permanent residence which is acquired only after 5 years of (ordinary) residence

BritInParis

This is my last post on the subject because it's getting very boring now and it has already been entirely unhelpful to anyone seeking correct information on the subject.

All countries that have freedom of movement with the UK (EU/EEA member states and Switzerland) operate the EHIC card scheme. If you're coming to the UK from an EEA country as a self-sufficient person (student, retired, financially independent, etc..) and you have a EHIC card from your home country then this is all you will need to access the NHS. You'll need to present your card at the GP or hospital but no-one is going to start billing you for services rendered. The cost is passed onto your home country. Providing you have held a valid EHIC card for the length of your residence in the UK as a self-sufficient person then you will also become eligible for permanent residence after five years.