I so wanna help my wife!!

Old Jun 20th 2014, 11:24 am
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Default I so wanna help my wife!!

I do apologize for this long winded thread but I have been trying to help my wife get some sort of clarity in what She can and what She cant apply for, below is a brief summary of her circumstances and situation, your advice towards the CORRECT, decisive and direct way forward will be greatly appreciated. She (WE) are hoping to immigrate over to the UK, as all of her family are now living there!! Below is where we're at now:

Wife: born SA after 1983, SA citizen.
Brother: born Zimbabwe before 1983, SA citizen, recently got UK citizenship, via spousal/ancestral visa route – currently residing in the UK.
Mother: born Germany 1957, RAF military airbase while father was in the Crown Service, Rhodesian/SA citizen, recently got ILR and become UK citizen just has to pay for citizenship ceremony and acquire passport, got into UK via ancestral visa route – currently residing in the UK.
Aunt: UK Citizen, Born UK 1960 – while father was in the Crown Service – since passed on.
Grandmother: UK citizen, Born Rhodesia 1932 – currently residing in the UK.
Grandfather: British born in Africa 1931, I pressume (Eastern Cape (as stated on his daughter's birth certificate), moved to Rhodesia, joined the Rhodesian Airforce then flew for RAF 1955–1961 - retired in Rhodesia – since passed on.

Please, please let me know what route we should take as every question we ask to various, sundary contrasundrye the latter!!

Last edited by Xan; Jun 20th 2014 at 11:27 am.
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Old Jun 20th 2014, 12:36 pm
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

I've moved your post here as I think you'll get the best advice here, Can I ask if you have British citizenship at all?
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Old Jun 20th 2014, 2:29 pm
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

Welcome to the world of Expats!

Sounds to me like her mother is British as her father was in Crown Service. She probably could definitely go Ancestry Visa herself if you are now living in South Africa as she was born in South Africa. Zimbabwe was suspended from commonwealth in 2002, not sure if it is re-instated. More expert opinion will be along shortly though!

Are you British? Or going along as a dependent? because if she does become British she will have to sponsor you anyway if you are not.
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Old Jun 20th 2014, 2:37 pm
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

Well that's altogether another brand new thread!! I am of Greek descent but my CLEVER Parents didn't bother to register us at birth, needless to say I am currently fighting with these bureaucrats and that outcome is still pending!! Its been a long, long battle!! But I've got to be hopeful that my wife can get the necessary docs far quicker than I!!
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Old Jun 20th 2014, 2:59 pm
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

Well what concerns me is the fact the all the agencies we got advice from told us her grandparents have to be born in the UK to be eligible for an ancestral visa. So she thinks that's a dead end! I would seriously consider the ancestry route and I've told her based on what I've researched she can maybe apply for an ancestry visa, but my darling wife is that type of individual that needs to have and see the proof of how and why she can qualify for the ancestral visa. There are other ways BUT those are more costly and the paperwork is just ridiculous!! What would the recommendation be for the quickest and most affordable route to go!! AND is the Some acts or laws that I can show my wife so she can start getting the required docs together!!
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Old Jun 20th 2014, 10:23 pm
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

Not an expert on this but someone will give insight into Ancestry shortly. I think if they are in crown service and had British Citizenship she may be lucky enough to go ancestry but you have to show birth certificates and therein may lie the problem.

If her mother was born in Germany and has a German passport or registered perhaps she could claim German citizenship via her mother? A long shot though!

I would pursue the Ancestry route and first thing is to get birth certificates of grandparents (or birth registration) and citizenship certificates or British passports or something on that line.

Are you in Zim or SA?
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Old Jun 20th 2014, 11:25 pm
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

Originally Posted by Xan
I do apologize for this long winded thread but I have been trying to help my wife get some sort of clarity in what She can and what She cant apply for, below is a brief summary of her circumstances and situation, your advice towards the CORRECT, decisive and direct way forward will be greatly appreciated. She (WE) are hoping to immigrate over to the UK, as all of her family are now living there!! Below is where we're at now:

Wife: born SA after 1983, SA citizen.
Brother: born Zimbabwe before 1983, SA citizen, recently got UK citizenship, via spousal/ancestral visa route – currently residing in the UK.
Mother: born Germany 1957, RAF military airbase while father was in the Crown Service, Rhodesian/SA citizen, recently got ILR and become UK citizen just has to pay for citizenship ceremony and acquire passport, got into UK via ancestral visa route – currently residing in the UK.
Aunt: UK Citizen, Born UK 1960 – while father was in the Crown Service – since passed on.
Grandmother: UK citizen, Born Rhodesia 1932 – currently residing in the UK.
Grandfather: British born in Africa 1931, I pressume (Eastern Cape (as stated on his daughter's birth certificate), moved to Rhodesia, joined the Rhodesian Airforce then flew for RAF 1955–1961 - retired in Rhodesia – since passed on.
Not clear.

You say that your wife's mother was born in Germany in 1957 while her father was on Crown Service with the RAF, originally from the (Southern) Rhodesia Air Force?

And that (maternal) grandfather was born in South Africa, 1931?
Do you know where his father was born? Or is there any chance he may have registered as a U.K. & Colonies citizen when he was with the RAF?

What about the other set of grandparents, where were they born?

Originally Posted by feelbritish
If her mother was born in Germany and has a German passport or registered perhaps she could claim German citizenship via her mother? A long shot though!
Except that being born in Germany does not, in itself, make someone a German citizen.
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Old Jun 20th 2014, 11:27 pm
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

I would question why your wife's mother had to apply for ILR and naturalise as a British citizen. If her father was in Crown service at the time of her birth in Germany then she would have received British citizenship otherwise than by descent on 1 January 1983. Her father did not need to be British in order for this to happen. If that is the case and your wife was born after 1983 then she would already be a British citizen by descent through her mother.

What rank did your wife's grandfather hold in the RAF? If he was not an officer where was he recruited? In the UK, South Africa or elsewhere?
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Old Jun 21st 2014, 11:18 am
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

Well according to a document we've found her grandfather joined the Far East Volunteer Unit attached to the British SAS in Malaya 1951, got his "Wings" in the Rhodesian Airforce in 1953 then joined the R.A.F. in 1955 where he was then based around various areas where they saw fit to place him, he spent most of his R.A.F. service in Aden and tours in Germany (he was a Flying Officer -1957, birth of mother-in-law) and UK, among other places! On retiring from the R.A.F. in 1961, he returned to the Rhodesian Airforce, retired 1978, 26 years military service.

Now my Mother-in-law had gone over to the UK originally on an ancestral visa in 2008, when she first approached an immigrations agency here they told her, her only hope was through an ancestral visa, I dont think that those agents had her best interests at heart, it was far quicker and less work to get an ancestral visa then to go through the registration of her due to her father being in the (crown service) R.A.F.

Currently living in S.A. the agents here are not as clued up with the laws like those in the UK, to them its just easy money and if you dont have grandparents born in the UK sorry for you, you can't go ancestral route. As for the other paternal grandparents, they too were born in Rhodesia, but that relationship is a tad volatile, we have requested docs from that side, but to no avail!! I have let my wife know an ancestral visa maybe the BEST and most affordable route to go BUT she is still unsure that they will give it to her< What should we do???? Will an ancestry visa be attainable??

Last edited by Xan; Jun 21st 2014 at 11:25 am.
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Old Jun 22nd 2014, 1:18 pm
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

Hey there Me again!!

Below is what I copy pasted off the gov.uk website:

2. Eligibility

You must prove that you:

are 17 or over
have enough money without help from public funds to support and house yourself and any dependants
can and plan to work in the UK

Your ancestry
You must also show that you have a grandparent born in 1 of the following circumstances:

in the UK, including the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man
before 31 March 1922 in what is now the Republic of Ireland
on a British-registered ship or aircraft

You can claim ancestry if either you or the relevant parent:
were adopted
were born within or outside marriage in the UK

You can’t claim UK ancestry through step-parents.

Now based on the fact that according to the previous UK Acts whereby if you were born while a parent/s were serving in the crown service/armed forces it is as if you were born in the UK! Yes or No?

Im so sorry for grasping at straws but I need serious assistance and my patience levels are running very low hence the urgency!!!
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Old Jun 22nd 2014, 2:23 pm
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

[QUOTE=Xan;11311707]

Hi Xan. I know that you've said that S.A. migration agents don't seem to be up on the complexities of your situation, but what about a U.K. registered agent? I'm sure the bulk, if not all of your communication could be done via email and Skype, and if you go with an experienced/recommended agent you'll have credible information that you can act on. You don't need to have the agent complete the actual application if you'd rather do it yourself, but in my opinion you really need some professional help to determine your visa options.

Wishing you and your wife the best of luck.
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Old Jun 22nd 2014, 5:14 pm
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

Originally Posted by BritInParis
I would question why your wife's mother had to apply for ILR and naturalise as a British citizen. If her father was in Crown service at the time of her birth in Germany then she would have received British citizenship otherwise than by descent on 1 January 1983. Her father did not need to be British in order for this to happen.
Not sure how this could work, under the law at the time. I see no provision that would confer British nationality upon the non-U.K. born child of a non-British Crown Servant. Unless by some chance an application for registration as a citizen was made.

It would definitely be worth investigating whether the father, in Crown Service, had acquired Citizenship of the U.K. & Colonies by registration. And I still don't think we've been told where his father was born. It might make a difference.

Also note that, as far as I am aware, the Ancestry Visa requires that the grandparent be born in the United Kingdom. There is no exemption for cases where the grandparent was born elsewhere due to Crown Service. In addition, there were some special British nationality acts passed in connection with Southern Rhodesia after 1965, although it's not clear if any of these could apply in this case.

There's enough complexity in this case to recommend that professional advice be sought, preferably from a competent immigration practitioner located in the U.K.
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Old Jun 23rd 2014, 8:44 am
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

According to the latest NS Guide June 2014 issue - Children born overseas to parents on Crown Service are normally granted British citizenship otherwise than by descent, so their status is the same as it would have been had they been born in the UK.
Now surely this mentioned on www.gov.uk just below the paragraph mentioning 1 grandparent blah blah blah:

You can claim ancestry if either you or the relevant parent:
were adopted
were born within or outside marriage in the UK

Maybe I'm reading that wrong but the above forms part of what qualifies a person for an ancestry visa, the eligibility I understand is as follows:

2. Eligibility
You must PROVE that you:

are 17 or over
have enough money without help from public funds to support and house yourself and any dependants
can and plan to work in the UK!

Now logic tells me that if proof is provided of the above crown service and birth of a parent whilst serving in the crown service, then my wife qualifies for an ancestry visa! You don't have to be a rocket scientist to make sense of all of that!
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Old Jun 23rd 2014, 2:20 pm
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

Originally Posted by Xan
According to the latest NS Guide June 2014 issue - Children born overseas to parents on Crown Service are normally granted British citizenship otherwise than by descent, so their status is the same as it would have been had they been born in the UK.
Now surely this mentioned on www.gov.uk just below the paragraph mentioning 1 grandparent blah blah blah:

You can claim ancestry if either you or the relevant parent:
were adopted
were born within or outside marriage in the UK

Maybe I'm reading that wrong but the above forms part of what qualifies a person for an ancestry visa, the eligibility I understand is as follows:

2. Eligibility
You must PROVE that you:

are 17 or over
have enough money without help from public funds to support and house yourself and any dependants
can and plan to work in the UK!

Now logic tells me that if proof is provided of the above crown service and birth of a parent whilst serving in the crown service, then my wife qualifies for an ancestry visa! You don't have to be a rocket scientist to make sense of all of that!
If it's all so clear to you, then what's the problem and why are you asking for advice?
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Old Jun 25th 2014, 12:15 am
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Default Re: I so wanna help my wife!!

To be eligible for an ancestry visa you need to be a Commonwealth citizen with a UK-born grandparent. A non-UK born grandparent being in Crown service won't affect this so unless one of your wife's grandparents were born in the UK then she won't be eligible for an ancestry visa.
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