Health Surcharge fir spouse visa

Old May 9th 2015, 12:13 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Health Surcharge fir spouse visa

Originally Posted by michali
We are retired returning residents so not paying tax through salary but we have submitted tax returns every year for many years and are therefore assessed based on our income. We pay taxes through other avenues. I have absolutely no problem with the Heath surcharge. As has been said, it is a small price to pay. Interesting for us this year is our uncertainty as to whether my husband, on a visa and still non Dom, is entitled to his personal allowance. I have been given conflicting advice. Even though our income is small, HMRC will certainly benefit if he is not entitled!

Anyone who is returning with a non EU spouse or coming in on another visa longer than six months has a choice. You either come in under existing rules or, if you do not like the rules, don't! This sounds harsh but immigration rules apply anywhere you go to in the world. We had to make a huge decision to return. Life us not always easy!
You are correct that there are immigration rules everywhere.

I would go further and say that people should expect rules to be in place.

I believe migrants need to accept this as a fact. I've written articles about it. We (migrants and migrant wanna-be's) shouldn't expect a free pass to live wherever we want.

What I also believe though is that a rule should not be an arbitrary barrier. It should not be discriminatory. It should not target ordinary people as 'undesirable'. It is very difficult (in my mind) to rectify much of the UK's current immigration policy with any of my (possibly pie in the sky) notions. And that is because the Home Secretary herself has said the government intends to create an environment that is hostile to illegal migrants. Fine. I can kind of get that. She also has said she wants to do away with criminal migrants using Human Rights law to get around the migration system. I see this as a fine notion, (aside from philosophical concerns I have about any country that starts to mess with due process). But due process is a different discussion for another day. EXCEPT for the fact that we saw the Home Secretary punt her family immigration rules through as secondary legislation in 2012 all wrapped up with language about migrant criminality. Hard for any MP to vote that one down. And we see the 2014 Immigration Laws come in to place to supposedly stop illegal work and illegal residency. But - what part of the legislation gives any 'protection' to those migrants who came to the UK legally? What does this bill do for them? Does it help them integrate? Or does it just lump them into the category of someone with an accent who won't be able to get a look at a decent flat?

I have been accused in this community of being anti-British. I am not. Your country gave the world the Magna Carta, and all democracy in the free world (including my country) springs forth from that document.

I am also no flag waving American patriot. I am a dyed-in-the-wool bleeding heart liberal. I am the freakish child of cold-war isolationism that was fed the 'greatest nation on earth' mantra from my cradle. Then I grew up and learned that the US is only ONE of the greatest nations on earth.

We have migrant detractors in the US. Plenty of them. They say the same thing that the Kippers say. Migrants take our jobs; they burn up our resources; they fill our classrooms; they suck the government teat. But they've never convinced our government to turn its immigration policy against the foreign born family members of US citizens. The US has immigration law (the INA) and boatloads of policy to go with it. But in the US, the law is relaxed for family members. And this bleeding heart liberal believes that is the way it should be.

Sigh. I know I must be ranting. I don't mean to. All I would ask anyone to ponder is whether or not a rule is OK just because you personally are able to comply with it. Because if it is, well.........that could be the same as saying that you're OK with what a government is doing as long as you're not hurt by it.

But hey ..... I'm from the US. What do I know. Our whole country was founded on being paranoid about what our leaders might do to us next.

Or maybe I'm just not a good rule follower.
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Old May 9th 2015, 1:11 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Health Surcharge for spouse visa

We're going to pay for the health surcharge, but its £100 higher than we expected (£600) and in dollar currency? Any idea for this?
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Old May 9th 2015, 1:23 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Health Surcharge for spouse visa

Originally Posted by emerlyn
We're going to pay for the health surcharge, but its £100 higher than we expected (£600) and in dollar currency? Any idea for this?
£100 for every 6 months rounded up - 33 month visa rounded up to 36 months = £600
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Old May 9th 2015, 1:25 am
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Default Re: Health Surcharge for spouse visa

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
£100 for every 6 months rounded up - 33 month visa rounded up to 36 months = £600
Yes, but when we covert the dollar to pounds it's £700 .. It's £100 higher
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Old May 9th 2015, 1:27 am
  #35  
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Default Re: Health Surcharge for spouse visa

Originally Posted by emerlyn
Yes, but when we covert the dollar to pounds it's £700 .. It's £100 higher
Sorry - think I misunderstood. What rate are you using to do the conversion from £ to $?
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Old May 9th 2015, 1:37 am
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Default Re: Health Surcharge for spouse visa

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
Sorry - think I misunderstood. What rate are you using to do the conversion from £ to $?
It's $ to £ ..actually we're going pay now then we saw it's in $
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Old May 9th 2015, 11:30 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Health Surcharge fir spouse visa

I agree with you about the unfairness of the rules for non EU spouses, Rebeccajo! Unfortunately, as the UK joined the EU, it had to abide by the rules and allow a huge jump in immigration numbers. So the government had to cut down in other areas, meaning us!!

Seventeen years ago, my husband was allowed in within days of applying and having paid very little for an entry visa, if anything at all. He had previously given several years of his life working in the public service in the UK, paying taxes, etc. but those things do not count when it comes to applying for a spousal visa.

Last year it was a very different process and I was very concerned that he might not be granted the visa and I made up my mind that, if it were not, we would accept the decision. Fortunately it was, but I well aware that many others have not been so lucky as they cannot meet the stringent requirements. I had hoped that a change in government might result in a relaxation of the rules ( and my vote reflected that hope) but now we know they will not get easier. In fact it may even become more difficult, not only to enter but to remain.

Unfortunately, a minority of immigrants have abused the system here and in other countries and the majority have to pay the price. Not fair but a reality.

A close friend of mine, now widowed, wants to settle in the UK and join her children who have lived here since their late teens. But because she is not totally dependent, physically and financially on them, she has been turned down. I would truly like to see a change in that rule, but, again, I doubt it will happen.
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Old May 9th 2015, 11:57 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Health Surcharge fir spouse visa

Originally Posted by michali
I agree with you about the unfairness of the rules for non EU spouses, Rebeccajo! Unfortunately, as the UK joined the EU, it had to abide by the rules and allow a huge jump in immigration numbers. So the government had to cut down in other areas, meaning us!!

Seventeen years ago, my husband was allowed in within days of applying and having paid very little for an entry visa, if anything at all. He had previously given several years of his life working in the public service in the UK, paying taxes, etc. but those things do not count when it comes to applying for a spousal visa.

Last year it was a very different process and I was very concerned that he might not be granted the visa and I made up my mind that, if it were not, we would accept the decision. Fortunately it was, but I well aware that many others have not been so lucky as they cannot meet the stringent requirements. I had hoped that a change in government might result in a relaxation of the rules ( and my vote reflected that hope) but now we know they will not get easier. In fact it may even become more difficult, not only to enter but to remain.

Unfortunately, a minority of immigrants have abused the system here and in other countries and the majority have to pay the price. Not fair but a reality.

A close friend of mine, now widowed, wants to settle in the UK and join her children who have lived here since their late teens. But because she is not totally dependent, physically and financially on them, she has been turned down. I would truly like to see a change in that rule, but, again, I doubt it will happen.
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Old May 9th 2015, 12:59 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Health Surcharge fir spouse visa

Originally Posted by rebeccajo
You are correct that there are immigration rules everywhere.

I would go further and say that people should expect rules to be in place.

I believe migrants need to accept this as a fact. I've written articles about it. We (migrants and migrant wanna-be's) shouldn't expect a free pass to live wherever we want.

I have been accused in this community of being anti-British. I am not. Your country gave the world the Magna Carta, and all democracy in the free world (including my country) springs forth from that document.

I am also no flag waving American patriot. I am a dyed-in-the-wool bleeding heart liberal. I am the freakish child of cold-war isolationism that was fed the 'greatest nation on earth' mantra from my cradle. Then I grew up and learned that the US is only ONE of the greatest nations on earth.

We have migrant detractors in the US. Plenty of them.

But hey ..... I'm from the US. What do I know. Our whole country was founded on being paranoid about what our leaders might do to us next.

Or maybe I'm just not a good rule follower.
very well put

we need more like you, than the fence sitting whinging Poms on this earth

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Old May 9th 2015, 1:23 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Health Surcharge fir spouse visa

Originally Posted by michali
Unfortunately, a minority of immigrants have abused the system here and in other countries and the majority have to pay the price. Not fair but a reality
A slight twist to that to a 'they bend or work within the rules' within the system & policies that British government have in place, which get changed & have made a right 'rats nest' mess of, that even the folks at the HO, UKVI are 'to the point' many times 'clueless'. In fact the immigrants or want to be settlers, even those entering the UK border control can be more up to date than the government employees. That is why there are so many appeals by immigrants, settlers or those entering the UK border control.

As for the ones that finally arrive & settle that start using all of what is available the British system makes available, well you have to wonder who is too blame or responsible when folks & the media start with the 'its not right' - well, its not the settlers, its the "Government".

We've discussed & debated the toughening up of spousal settlement, the fact that there are other ways of settling in the UK & with that easy, partial or full access to 'public funds' including the NHS.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, I just wish it was clear cut so folks don't start looking for the slight jar in the door' that they can slide through.
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Old May 9th 2015, 1:44 pm
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Default Re: Health Surcharge fir spouse visa

Originally Posted by michali
Unfortunately, as the UK joined the EU, it had to abide by the rules and allow a huge jump in immigration numbers.
There seems to be a misunderstanding with EU free movement rules. If I wanted to retire to say Spain, I would still have to show Spain I had the savings to reside there. BUT, I would also have to buy full medical insurance to cover all my healthcare bills in Spain, including any accidents. Spain would not pay for me. The same for Spanish retiring to the UK, even if they are married to a UK citizen.

Compare that to non-EU citizens retiring to the UK on a UK spouse visa, with instant free access to the NHS even for existing health conditions for just £200 a year for those that come from countries that don't have healthcare reciprocal agreements with the UK.

Those retiring to the UK on the UK spouse visa have the much better deal than the EEAs retiring to the UK. And before anyone asks, the EEA retirees will not have access to any UK welfare payments, housing or funding/help from the UK's social services.

Last edited by formula; May 9th 2015 at 2:02 pm.
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Old May 9th 2015, 2:54 pm
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Default Re: Health Surcharge fir spouse visa

Originally Posted by not2old
A slight twist to that to a 'they bend or work within the rules' within the system & policies that British government have in place, which get changed & have made a right 'rats nest' mess of, that even the folks at the HO, UKVI are 'to the point' many times 'clueless'. In fact the immigrants or want to be settlers, even those entering the UK border control can be more up to date than the government employees. That is why there are so many appeals by immigrants, settlers or those entering the UK border control.

As for the ones that finally arrive & settle that start using all of what is available the British system makes available, well you have to wonder who is too blame or responsible when folks & the media start with the 'its not right' - well, its not the settlers, its the "Government".

We've discussed & debated the toughening up of spousal settlement, the fact that there are other ways of settling in the UK & with that easy, partial or full access to 'public funds' including the NHS.
As I have said to you before, no, they can't do this anymore since 2010 and it will get toughter and toughter. The abuse of appeals has been closed down and will still keep getting closed down as more people abuse these routes to try to delay their removal. Free legal aid has also been removed.

New laws now allow UKVI to now deport first and then they have to appeal in their own countries to save clogging up the UK courts. Just look at the speed the UKVI collected, detained and removed all those involved in the TOEIC abuse, with speech recognition technolgy to stop any appeals from winning.

Overstayers, illegals will now have a bad time and the IHS whcih gives free NHS, expires when their legal visa expires or is cancelled. The same for EEA citizens who no longer have a right to reside in the UK, they too will be stopped from free NHS now and all benefits. Even those that do have a right to reside but can't use the NHS for free, will now have to fund their own medical bills instead of the UK.


Those who abuse human rights laws by claiming it is their human right to be allowed to live in the UK, now have little chance of winning. To stop the abusers, some easy UK visas were shut and others were changed.

The rules for EEAs have been changed too to be much tougher to retain a right to reside in the UK or claim UK benefits and free NHS. The UK plans to also deport those EEAs and their dependants who do not have or have lost their right to reside, to relieve the stress on schools, housing, jobs, roads, services ect.

Those who have ever overstayed a UK visa by more than 28 days or ever entered the UK illegally and then returned to the UK on a legal visa, are now banned from UK citizenship for 10 years.

New laws have made it easier to remove UK citizenship.

ect. ect.

All this makes it fairer for those on the UK visas as they now have the easiest ride.

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Old May 9th 2015, 4:10 pm
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Default Re: Health Surcharge fir spouse visa

Originally Posted by formula

The rules for EEAs have been changed too to be much tougher to retain a right to reside in the UK or claim UK benefits and free NHS. The UK plans to also deport those EEAs and their dependants who do not have or have lost their right to reside, to relieve the stress on schools, housing, jobs, roads, services ect.

Those who have ever overstayed a UK visa by more than 28 days or ever entered the UK illegally and then returned to the UK on a legal visa, are now banned from UK citizenship for 10 years.

New laws have made it easier to remove UK citizenship.

ect. ect.

All this makes it fairer for those on the UK visas as they now have the easiest ride.

Of course it does & it should get tougher for anyone, even the non EU spouses of Brits to settle in the UK. The current £62,500 spouse settlement visa should be increased up to say £100,000 and to that, the current 'work in a job in the UK earning £18,600 for six months should be increased to 12 months. The job offer route earning X should be removed.

I would like to see that it is 10 years to ILR, as well as 10 years to citizenship and that anyone on a settlement visa or residence card should pay £500/yr for NHS till they make it to ILR or citizenship, have no access to public funds, including housing or child benefits until they make ILR or citizenship

I would like to see the UK out of the EU with a maybe still being in the EEA, to stop Brits getting whatever is available for free as residents of another EU/EEA country. That all of any EEA/EU wanting to settle in the UK would need to meet the same requirements that is in place for non EU's

I would like to see the Surinder Singh route abolished completely

I would also like to see the ancestry visa gone - why should that exist ever in this modern day & age?

I am OK with the one step 'citizenship by descent'

The UK should go it alone, not let anyone in unless its the tougher requirements I mentioned above, or that Brits be allowed to reside in any other EU/EEA country - that the requirements for anyone to settle in the UK should jgo back to the way it was 50 years ago

What do you think of my proposal formula, do you agree fully, maybe comment on each point separately, or could you suggest a compromise plan?
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Old May 9th 2015, 4:18 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Health Surcharge fir spouse visa

"Paytriotism"

Citizenship: Paytriotism | The Economist
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Old May 9th 2015, 4:24 pm
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Default Re: Health Surcharge fir spouse visa

thanks for the article, 'Queens ransom' its still too easy to get citizenship with such a low cost.

Citizenship should be tougher, the fees per person should increase to £10,000

Settlement by investment one shot, no partial just the full £10,000,000 per person, they get ILR & going that route - with only the one option available, it is 10 years to citizenship

Mentioned earlier, ILR after 10 years with a ILR fee of £5000 per person in the family applying, this is after the 'spouse settlement visa', then if the person wants citizenship its the added extra cost of £10,000

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