British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Citizenship/Passports and Spouse/Family Visas (UK) (https://britishexpats.com/forum/citizenship-passports-spouse-family-visas-uk-196/)
-   -   Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :) (https://britishexpats.com/forum/citizenship-passports-spouse-family-visas-uk-196/form-ukf-uk-citizen-decent-questions-915139/)

alannabel Jul 20th 2018 8:01 pm

Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 
1 Attachment(s)
Oh hello there. :)

My name is Alanna, and I am currently in the process of completing Form UKF, which (if all goes well) will enable me to receive UK Citizenship.

I am having a bit of trouble understanding this one part, however, and am wondering if someone here can help me? If I'm in the wrong forum, please let me know and I will move (and I apologize profusely if this is the case!).

My question is with regards to referees. I've been doing A LOT of digging, and I am submitting the form from Canada, which is a Commonwealth Country, so there is no need for any of my referees to hold a British Passport (I believe, I could still be wrong but this is the conclusion I've come to). My friend, who I have known for over 20 years and is over the age of 25 and holds a stable position within the company she works for, is my first referee. So far, this seems to be acceptable.

Now this is where I am stumped. At lease one of the referees must be a professional person, which would mean one of the following on a list I found (attached).
I... I do not know anyone, who fits this list, that I have known for 3+ years. The only person whom I could consider would be a family friend, with the position of Book Keeper (a step down from an Accountant), who has been within the company he works for for the past 11 years. Would this person qualify? My only other option for professional persons I know is a civil-law notary (who are lawyers who pass the bar and can give legal advice), however I have only known him for the past 6 months. I do not believe he qualifies to be a referee, but I thought it might be good to bring him up and see if there's a possibility that I can have him on my application.

Another little roadblock I've come across is my whole birth certificate issue, since my parents LOST the original one. I received a replacement in 2014, however the issue date is in 2014 and not in 1989. I believe this means I will need to get a court document stating my father is, indeed, my father - or a DNA test. Would anyone here happen to know if this is the case? He is named on my birth certificate, however it's not one from within the first 12 months of my birth. Alternatively, if it is acceptable, I can have a document written up and then notarized by the notary I mentioned earlier. :)

Many thanks, in advance, to anyone who has read this massive text - I tend to get ahead of myself when typing. :D I am looking forward to (hopefully?) some replies!

BritInParis Jul 21st 2018 5:01 am

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 
On what basis do you think you are eligible?

alannabel Jul 21st 2018 2:56 pm

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 
That’s an interesting and very accusing question.

My father was born in Aberdeen, Scotland, in 1968.
My grandparents were born in Aberdeen, Scotland, in 1934 & 1936.
My great grandparents were born in Cullen, Scotland, in 1906 & 1908.
My great great grandparents were born in Cullen, Scotland, in 1863 & 1869.

I can go all the way back to the 1600’s, if you’d like. :D

The form, UKF, is for those who wish to become UK/British Citizens by decent. From what I’ve read and understand, I am eligible. Just trying to get through the application. :)

christmasoompa Jul 21st 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 

Originally Posted by alannabel (Post 12536470)
That’s an interesting and very accusing question.



Just FYI - BiP is our forum pro on all matters pertaining to British citizenship. He is an encyclopaedia of nationality law and an all round good guy.

So if he's asking, it won't be 'accusing', it'll be because there is some specific info he's after. I've no idea what the reason is, it may be that there is a different route for you to go down or because he's checking something, but rest assured, there will be a good reason for that question.

HTH.

Novocastrian Jul 21st 2018 3:29 pm

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 

Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 12536473)
Just FYI - BiP is our forum pro on all matters pertaining to British citizenship. He is an encyclopaedia of nationality law and an all round good guy.

So if he's asking, it won't be 'accusing', it'll be because there is some specific info he's after. I've no idea what the reason is, it may be that there is a different route for you to go down or because he's checking something, but rest assured, there will be a good reason for that question.

HTH.

In this case, the missing information in the OP's first post was that her father was born in Scotland. Therefore she has always been a UKC by descent and merely needs to apply for her passport. I imagine BiP is used to dealing with trickier problems.

BritInParis Jul 21st 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 

Originally Posted by alannabel (Post 12536470)
That’s an interesting and very accusing question.

My father was born in Aberdeen, Scotland, in 1968.
My grandparents were born in Aberdeen, Scotland, in 1934 & 1936.
My great grandparents were born in Cullen, Scotland, in 1906 & 1908.
My great great grandparents were born in Cullen, Scotland, in 1863 & 1869.

I can go all the way back to the 1600’s, if you’d like. :D

The form, UKF, is for those who wish to become UK/British Citizens by decent. From what I’ve read and understand, I am eligible. Just trying to get through the application. :)

Form UKF is for specific circumstances; if those circumstances don't apply to you then there's little point in answering your other questions. Establishing a few facts beforehand saves everybody's time and potentially your money.

You mention your father was born in the UK in 1968. What year were you were born? Where were you born? Where was your mother born? Were your parents ever married, either at the time of your birth or afterwards?

alannabel Jul 21st 2018 6:42 pm

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 
My apologies upfront, for feeling as though the question was accusing. I really didn’t mean any negativity to show through.

I was born in 1989, in Canada. My father and his siblings and parents emigrated to Canada in 1973.
My parents were not married, before or after, my birth. Upon investigation, should they have been married, I would then be a UK Citizen already (I think?), however since they weren’t, this is why I am applying now.

My mother was born in the USA, to Canadian parents who were living in the States at the time.

My only connection to the UK is through my father and his fmily. My mothers ancestors are from France, and have been in Canada for several generations, at this point.

I have done so much research, I feel as though this is the form I need to complete and submit. The only roadblocks at the moment are within the questions I first posted, regarding the referees and proving my father is indeed my father. I have ordered a copy of an act of birth, which should provide more details, however that being said I am waiting on my mother to see if she can find the old custody documents which would state paternity. Keeping fingers crossed. :D

Just for more clarification on the birth certificate issue: there is no question about it, I know my father is my father. Even if I didn’t have a birth certificate, or any records indicating who he is, the mere fact that I look exactly like him (but am female) just goes to show I’m definitely not the postman’s baby. :D

BritInParis Jul 21st 2018 6:51 pm

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 
Okay, so Form UKF is correct for your situation.

You mention an issue with the original birth certificate being lost - does the replacement copy state the date of registration as well as the date of issue? Does the one issued in 2014 not have the same information as the one you are waiting on?

As for referees, do you not have a family doctor, dentist or optometrist you could ask?

alannabel Jul 21st 2018 8:20 pm

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 
I do have a replacement of my birth certificate, but the date of issue is in 2014, which is 15 years later than my birthdate. The birth certificate I have now has all the information my original one had, except for that date of issue. I’m hoping the copy of an act of birth may have some more information.

I have moved adound a lot, and because of this, I don’t have doctors in my life that I’ve strictly known for over 3 years. My only other option is to contact my orthodontist from when I was 12-14 years old, and see if he would be willing to sign as the second referee I need who has a professional position.

The only other person I know is an accountant, but I haven’t known her for more than 3 years.

BritInParis Jul 22nd 2018 10:08 am

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 
I appreciate the date of issue is 2014 but does your current birth certificate list a date of registration as well?

Your orthodontist might be the way to go if you know no-one else.

Is it your intention to move to the UK to live and work?

alannabel Jul 22nd 2018 2:57 pm

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 
Canadian birth certificates, at least Québec ones, don’t provide a registration date. Only a number. The date of issue is the only other date, besides my birthdate.

I’m currently planning the possibility of moving and working in the UK. I’ve thought that Citizenship should be the first step, then I’ll need to plan out the rest. I’ve already come to terms with the fact I’ll need to sell everything I own. I’ve thought about it, and I would probably need £8,000 to start off. I’ve looked at some flats for rent, as well as job positions. With all that said, should I do move, it won’t be until next year.

BritInParis Jul 23rd 2018 2:23 am

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 

Originally Posted by alannabel (Post 12536799)
Canadian birth certificates, at least Québec ones, don’t provide a registration date. Only a number. The date of issue is the only other date, besides my birthdate.



Hopefully the birth certificate you have on order will provide more information.


I’m currently planning the possibility of moving and working in the UK. I’ve thought that Citizenship should be the first step, then I’ll need to plan out the rest. I’ve already come to terms with the fact I’ll need to sell everything I own. I’ve thought about it, and I would probably need £8,000 to start off. I’ve looked at some flats for rent, as well as job positions. With all that said, should I do move, it won’t be until next year.
If you are planning on staying for five years or more then you may wish to consider a UK Ancestry visa. It would be a more expensive route in the short term but it would permit you to live and work in the UK for five years after which you could apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) and then naturalise as a British citizen a year later (or immediately if you are married to a British citizen by that point). Naturalisation would give you British citizenship otherwise than by descent meaning your own children will be automatically British citizens regardless of their place of birth. Registering now would only give you British citizenship by descent so your children would not automatically became British citizens if they were born outside the UK (presuming you were the sole British parent).

alannabel Jul 23rd 2018 5:20 am

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 
Would simply not being a British citizen be enough to move to, work, and remain in the UK indefinitely? I have no children and currently do not plan on having children, also for the fact that the possibility of me even having children is very slim to none considering the medical problems with that whole area. The thought of preparing my future for the children I do not have nor am unsure I will ever have seems like a step I’m not really looking to take, at this point in time.

I may have also misunderstood where you were going with your statement...

BritInParis Jul 23rd 2018 9:41 am

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 

Originally Posted by alannabel (Post 12537034)
Would simply not being a British citizen be enough to move to, work, and remain in the UK indefinitely? I have no children and currently do not plan on having children, also for the fact that the possibility of me even having children is very slim to none considering the medical problems with that whole area. The thought of preparing my future for the children I do not have nor am unsure I will ever have seems like a step I’m not really looking to take, at this point in time.

I may have also misunderstood where you were going with your statement...

Being a British citizen would, of course, be enough to move to the UK. If you think it unlikely that you will have children then registration is likely your preferred option.

alannabel Jul 23rd 2018 2:21 pm

Re: Form UKF - UK Citizen by decent - Questions! :)
 
It's more the fact it's unlikely I CAN have children, but that's an issue for a different kind of discussion.

One of the professionals that can be a referee is a Lawyer, right? Out here in Quebec, our Notaries go through the same schooling as Lawyers and must pass the bar exam to be able to practice. Would a Notary then be eligible, after all, to sign as a referee for me? If so, I may have found my second referee. :)


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