Beccarose

I've posted this on UKY and no one seems to know, so I thought I would ask here- sorry for the repetitiveness for anyone on both sites.

My husband is an EU national and we will be applying for the EEA family permits.
It seems my 19 year old may want to come with us to England. I already know I need to fill out applications for myself (USC) and my 15 year old (also USC) and know I don't need to fill anything out for my 11 year old or my 9 year old who are both dual USC and EU- but my 19 year old is USC- so I know I will need to fill out an application for him too.
Question is, since he is under 21 and still living at home he is allowed to come with us, but what happens once he turns 21? He won't have lived there long enough to qualify for citizenship, will he still be able to keep his EEA family permit and remain there when he turns 21? I don't see anything about this on UKBA and am hoping someone here knows about this.

WEBlue

Beccarose, I'm hoping someone with experience or knowledge of this will chime in & give you some help on this question. I KNOW how hard it is to move country with older teen-agers; trying to navigate the different immigration rules sometimes makes things so difficult for families with kids of this age.

I'm no expert at ALL, but I've done some reading on the EEA route, & I've come across the info that any non-EEA child under 21 who is "fully dependent" on the EU/EEA national can come to the UK under an EEA Family Permit, then switch to an EEA Residence Card good for 5 years. What "fully dependent" means I'm not sure of. Is the child related in any way to your husband, or is he yours alone? I think this might be a key question.

Here's one page I've come across. It's for a UK immigration lawyer--so of course it's aiming to recruit clients--but the info is clear & reflects what I've read other places. Scroll down to section C. 'Dependent Children of an EEA national exercising EC Treaty Rights in the UK'.
http://www.lawfirmuk.net/children_e.html

Maybe ask your question on immigrationboards.com in the EEA section as a last resort. There are some real immigration professionals who post there.

formula

EEA worker rights and immigration rules are not the same as UK immigration laws. I agree about immigrationboards.com for your question.

Don't set your heart on getting British citizenship in 5 years time under EU laws, just in case this eurozone crisies gets much worse. If it does, I think the UK will get out of the EU.

Beccarose

What?!?! So if that happened we could be kicked out even if we have the EEA family permit?!? I don't understand... even if it does get out of the EU (how likely is that?) does that really mean anyone who entered before that happened would then be disqualified?

Beccarose

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this...

WEBlue

Formula likes to tell people who are considering the EEA/EU route that the UK may well leave the EU. First of all, she has no better chrystal ball than any of the rest of us as to the fate of the EU. And secondly, IF such a thing came to pass, it seems unlikely that law-abiding EEA/EU residents who are contrubuting to the growth of the UK economy by exercising their treaty rights would be ejected.

The truth is, nobody knows the future. . . but Formula likes to post as though she does.

formula

Being told that there are chances this might happen is not a bad thing for some. Just look at what a shock the new immigration rules have been for those who buried their heads in the sand; despite the UK govenment stating ages ago that they 'only wanted immigrants who gave to the UK and didn't take' and 'that they wanted to return the National healthcare system to the National and not World healthcare system it has become'. Yet we have a whole host of shocked immigrants just on this site, since the new rules in July. For some reason, they didn't think the UK government meant them when they talked about stopping the immigrants who take from the UK.

We have the problems of the Euro going. The UK has already said it will do what it has to to protect the UK as it is predicted there will be a mass EEAs trying to get into the UK. UK embassies in Europe have already been briefed to get the Brits out of Eurozone countries and get them home.

We have the problems with some Eurozone countires (do you follow the news?) and again the UK has already said it will do what it has to to protect the UK and are already watching to see if EEA numbers trying to get into the UK, get much higher.

Many other western countries too are wanting out of the EUs free movement or are proposing much tougher rules to protect western Europe.


And you do too it seems. I would be interested to know why you think it's "unlikely that law-abiding EEA/EU residents who are contrubuting to the growth of the UK economy by exercising their treaty rights would be ejected."

Just out of interest, where do you think all the returning Brits will live (houses) if we let all those from the EU stay too?

What about all the jobs we will need for the returning Brits if the EU goes: especailly as those using the EU route are low skilled and not here on job shortages visas?

What about all the extra welfare we will need to help the low skilled EEAs and their families and those returning Brits who need help? We are already making massive cuts in welfare payments with another 10 billion pounds to cut from welfare, to pay off our 1 trillion debts. Where will the UK magic all that extra money from for the returning Brits and for all the EEAs and their families that you say will be allowed to stay? Quite apart from the fact that if we don't make these cuts, we will lose our AAA rating and then have to pay even higher interest rates on our 1 trillion debts; which in turn will mean even harder cuts.

The same with schools; how will they cope with the sheer numbers of their returning citizens and all the EEAs and their families?

And the NHS; how will that cope when it is already struggling under the sheer numbers?

And the UK roads and all the services; how will they cope too?

Do you really think they will let millions of EEAs and their families stay in the UK if the country says "no" to the EU with it's free movement and human rights laws? Labour talking about offering that vote as part of their maifesto to get back into power next time. The UK is the most over populated country in the EEA already, even before the Brits have to return home.

Your view on what will happen if the UK gets out of the EU, doesn't add up; but I would be interested in your answers to the above questions.

If the UK leaves the EU, EEAs and their families will be able to move to other EEA countries; but expect other western EU countries to be looking after their own, too.

Or you can ignore everything and say that it will never happen; just like those immigrants who didn't think the UK government would protect the UK with new immigration rules and then got a rude awakening when they did.

WEBlue

I'd love to see where you have got this info. Do you have any links about these embassy briefings?

I read a lot of news, which is why I'm puzzled as to your sources for this feeling you have that the UK will leave the EU.

There are many sources for the opposing view, that the UK will NOT do so. There was a much-ballyhooed Parliamentary debate on a nationwide EU Referendum last autumn (24 October 2011). The motion to have a countrywide vote on whether to stay or leave the EU was defeated 483 - 111.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15425256

Here's another quite recent article on Cameron's determination to work for change within the EU rather than the option of leaving it:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...-eu-referendum

I do believe that the UK, along with certain other EU countries, is extremely concerned about migrants as well as immigrants, and that some if not all of these EU nations may decide to devise systems that will tighten their border controls and in-country systems that have been impacted by excess migration. But that's a very long way from saying the UK is about to withdraw completely from the EU. I think this is a talking point and a dream of some of those on the political fringes, not a reality.

roaringmouse

Do check your facts - Malta, Netherlands and Belgium all have greater population densities than the UK, and Germany isn't that far behind the UK.

Sally Redux

UK embassies briefed to evacuate Brits? What are you smoking?

formula

Nice try; but I'm sure you realised that the UK isn't a country and it was a typo; and in your example above, the last UK figures were 2009. Whereas here is the BBC report on the UK government's Office of Statistics 2008 report for England. A lot different to the figure you showed for 2008 of 252 for the whole of the UK:-

Immigration levels have pushed population density in England to a higher level than any other major country in Europe.

The figures, released by the Office for National Statistics, indicate there is an average of 395 people in every square kilometre in England.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7618994.stm



England is/was the most overcrowded in 2011 with 460 people per sq kl as an average (60 million living in England). But when you consider that London and the south have taken the brunt of immigration, those areas are the most heavily overpopulated. Just looked and seen that poor old Netherlands has now got the award for most overpolulated in the EU and England is second. Malta has taken drastic actions to reduce the low skilled immigrants trying to live there.

formula

Not the same as you it seems. Try google if it isn't on the news where you live.

formula

So you have missed all the problems with Euro PIIGS countries? And the riots? The meltdown with the Euro? The banking crisis and the subprime problems? And the UK embassies being briefed on how to get Brits home if the Euro collapes too it seems.

Where are these sources?

So you still think the UKs schools, roads, welfare, housing, social services, NHS etc, can cope with all the low skilled EEAs and their families and also take all the homecoming Brits??? If we just look at housing for instance; where will we house everyone?

I admire your faith in the Euro problems being so easily sorted and that the UK and other western countries won't vote to come out of the EU or amend EU laws to protect their own countries. In times of crisis, every country will protect their own.

As for your take on Cameron, last night he did hint at an EU vote. However, this is being forced on him by senior Tories defecting to UKIP and the worry of other senior Tories that they will lose many of their voters to UKIP too. UKIP are anti EU. As I said above; Labour are now talking about offering an in/out vote EU vote to try to win the next election as they feel they lost the election on immigration. If you watch the news, then you will already know this.

formula

Each country has it's own immigration laws. EU Free Worker Movement rights are for countries that are in the EU (or skilled EEA citizens can enter under UK immigration rules).

EU laws and UK laws do not cross i.e time served under EU law towards UK citizenship, cannot be used if you then change to a UK immigration laws path to citizenship. EU citizens aim for PR to get citizenship of another country, whereas those entering under UK immigration laws, will aim for ILR to get citizenship.

roaringmouse

The UK is a country (also known as a sovereign, and in this case unitary, state). England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are constituent countries that make up the UK - however the UK is the sovereign state.

Based on that, England is not a member of the EU however the UK is a member of the EU.

Based on those facts, how would anyone know that you've "made a typo", if indeed it was? Especially when you're going on about how UK (not English) roads, schools etc will cope.

To separate one (rather large) part of the country to push your agenda is rather ridiculous, and from a quick search online it looks like you may have got this from an article in the Daily Mail. Even that article contradicts its title, and states that Malta has a great population density than England.

However, when looking at EU countries for this kind of thing, it helps to look at the actual EU member states, rather than one part of a country that you want to look at to push your agenda.