caevv

Hello,
My Wife is Dutch, and we are both living outside UK. I understand that me and the children need to apply for the EEA Family Permit.

She is not working right now, and will not be working anytime soon, for we have a baby, and wife is going to be with the baby.

I am the one who got a job offer in UK and will sustain the family with the job.

Can I apply to the EEA Family Permit? What I put on the letter?

I'm going to travel together with her and the baby, and after we settle (about 2 weeks) she is going to travel to get the other kid.

Is that ok? Should I put that on the letter? Or I just put that we are all going to travel together?

Thank you.

SanDiegogirl

An interesting situation.

You wife will not be exercising her treaty rights, because as you say she is not going to work. So how does she qualify for moving to the UK under treaty rights as working, looking for work, studying, self employed or self sufficient?

It is YOU who has the job in the UK. The family permit is valid for 6 months, after which you could apply for a resident card etc etc. However, your wife will not be exercising her EU rights, so I'm not sure your situation is eligible for the residency card.

In you situation I think your new employer should be getting you a work visa.

I'd be interested to see what other forum members think.

BritInParis

I presume you are not a citzen of an EEA/EU country? If your wife is Dutch then it is likely your children are too. Where were they born? Have you applied for their Dutch passports?

Your wife can exercise her Treaty Rights in the UK as a self-sufficient person. If she is self-sufficient because you are supporting her with your salary which is being paid into a joint account then this should allow you to live in the UK on an EEA residence card.

caevv

About the kids, I have applied for their Dutch citizenship, but it wont be ready on time. So I guess I have to apply them on the EEA Family Permit. Do I need to make an application for each of them, or can I just apply for myself and put they are travelling with me.

So, putting self-sufficient on the application for her, and that I have a job offer for myself would be enough?

Thank you.

caevv

I thought about other thing, my wife blog too, but she earn about U$100 each other month, would be best to say she is self-employed or just self-sufficient?

BritInParis

Your children will also need an EEA Family Permit each if they're travelling on non-EU passports. Putting self-sufficient on the form and indicating that she receives an income from your salary should be sufficient. There's no guarantees however.

Since $100 a month isn't enough to support someone I would put self-sufficient although mention that income as well.

SanDiegogirl

I am no expert on this but it seems contradictory that the EU national can be considered self sufficient when the basis for self sufficiency is coming from the non EU partner. i.e the EU national has no means of supporting themselves except with the income of the non EU partner.

The following link has some interesting reading on this issue:

EEA national self sufficient: UKBA response : EEA-route Applications • Immigrationboards.com

BritInParis

Perhaps but the regulations do not worry about the source of the income.

...

Providing the OP has CSI in place for his family and his income is high enough to meet the test in Paragraph (2)(a) (i.e. above the level required to claim means-test benefits) then he should be eligible. I would suggest that both incomes should be paid into a joint account however in order for them to be considered.

SanDiegogirl

4.—(1) In these Regulations —
...
(c)“self-sufficient person” means a person who has—
(i)sufficient resources not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the United Kingdom during his period of residence; and
(ii)comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the United Kingdom;
...

You say "providing the OP has CSI in place for his family". BUT the OP (the non EU person) has a job offer in the UK, will be paying taxes and therefore as a resident and paying taxes should not have to have CSI because he (and his dependents) would be eligible for the NHS.

CSI is required where an EU non working national (self sufficient) moves to the UK and is not eligible for the NHS.

The EU national in this case is a dependent of a non EU person who has a job offer in the UK.

So the "self sufficiency" aspect of the EU rules does not fit this situation.


While I admit the rules maybe open to interpretation in this area and the OP and his family might well be admitted on the Family permit (most people do), looking at it logically the OP has a job offer in the UK, he has dependents who will not be exercising their treaty rights in order to live in the UK so his company should be obtaining a work visa for him.

BritInParis

The situation does mean the rules contradict themselves somewhat as although the OP will be working and paying taxes his status will still be as a dependent on his EEA national spouse who will be in the UK as a self-sufficient person. Dutch EHIC cards all round would solve this issue if it's an option although I infer from the OP that he is living with his family in a third country.

If his employer is willing and able to sponsor the OP for a visa then that would be the way to go although we're had no information about what the job offer entails.

SanDiegogirl

I hope the OP will let us know the outcome of his situation.

formula

Brit is correct. Paying taxes in the UK is nothing to do with being allowed free NHS. Many don't pay taxes and are still allowed free use of the NHS.

The UK has no duty to provide free healthcare to Self Sufficents and their dependants. Self Sufficients are required to have full health insurance for themselves and all their dependants, which must also cover all exisiting conditions; and also accidents too I assume ready for when 'free A&E for all' ends in England. The non-EU dependant working doesn't change that.

Self Sufficents and their dependants must not claim any UK benefits either, because they are self sufficient. That includes no claiming of any of the child related benefits, nor any in-work benefits, nor housing ect, because their Right to Reside as a Qualified person, is as a self sufficient. A non-EU dependant working doesn't change that either, because they are only allowed to reside and work in the UK as a dependant of an EU Self Sufficient.


And the only reason the non-EU is allowed to reside in the UK and work in the UK, is as a dependant of an EEA who is claiming a Right to Reside as a Self Sufficient Qualified Person.
The EEA citizen has to have CSI and therefore all their dependants have to also.

Yes it does, as you can see from above. The Self Sufficent and all their dependants must have a full CSI for everyone of their dependants and they must not claim any UK benefits.

There are lots of 'my PR was refused' posts on immigration boards because the whole family didn't have CSI; or they claimed UK benefits because they thought they could as the non-EU was working. Or refused because they never arrived in the UK with enough savings to be a Self Sufficient Qualified Person and because of that, their non-EU partner never had the right to work in the UK.

caevv

I have found more information. Take a look here: The EEA national is not a qualified person because there is no evidence of Treaty rights being exercised

So, this states that I cannot be refusal the FP, if I arrive TOGETHER with the EEA partner.

But when I'm already there, and apply for the Residence Card, things looks different. It is asked:
Proof that your EEA family member is in work, self-employed or able to support you without applying for benefits.

So, I might assume that if we are not applying for any benefit, a joint account might be sufficient.

Some thoughts?

caevv

Or, if applying for any benefit, like Child Benefit, she would have to be working OR self-employed.

As self-employed would be the case, looks like it is asked:
Contracts, invoices, or audited accounts with bank statements, and paying tax and National Insurance

A joint account could be enough for the bank statement, but the problem would be paying tax and National Insurance. Is that even possible as a blogger/etsy crafter?

More thoughts please.

formula

An EEA citizen exercising their Right to Reside in the UK as a worker Qualified Person, needs to earn at least 24 x the UK's National minimum wage per week, for 3 months and show proof of that, before they can then claim UK benefits. They must keep earning at least that amount each week, to continue to get some (not all) UK benefits.

The UK's national minimum wage per hour is currently £6.50 per week, so she will need to show proof of working and earning £156 per week. The UK's NMW will rise in October 2015 to £6.70 per hour and therefore she will then need to earn at least £160.80 per week, every week, from then to get any UK benefits. If their non-EU dependant also works, then the joint household salary will determine if they can have income based benefits. Child benefit is an income based benefit too.

For the Self Employed EEA citizen exercising their Right to Reside in the UK as a Qualified person, the same rules as above will be starting in April 2015 and will be applied retrospectively.

Under the welfare reforms, it will change again when the area you live in is rolled onto the new one income based benefit, Universal Credit. Universal Credit will replace many income based benefits and has a much stricter requirement for claiming and harsher conditions for claimants that must be met for benefits to continue.

For times when your EEA wife isn't meeting the Worker or Self Employed, or Jobseeker (Jobseeker Qualified Person now limited now to 3 months) status, you will all need to have Comprehensive Medical Insurance to cover exisiting conditons too, even if you, the non-EEA, is working.

For your right to reside in the UK with an EEA citizen who is Self Sufficient, she will need to prove she had the means to be Self Sufficient. During this time, she/you will not be allowed to claim any UK benefits and all your family will need Comrehensive Sickness Insurance to pay for your own healthcare.

You will need to keep up to date with all changes during your time in the UK as all changes (EU rules and the UK's changes to interpretation of EEA rules) are always applied retrospectively. This can affect benefits EEA citizens claim from the UK, and/or stop their 5 year clock to PR in the UK.