pondhopper2014

Okay. They asked for my birth certificate and I sent it in when I did my application, along with my dad's (born in UK), and parent's marriage certificate (a year before my birth). But now HMPO called and says that my long form birth certificate from Quebec (the one that says my parent's full names, same as their marriage certificate, and my dad's the same as his birth certificate) is not acceptable. I need something "more". Her words, "you require a document that was issued within a year of your birth" - like a birth certificate that was issued within a year of my birth (??? What difference does it make, I never had one, my birth certificate was issued in 2009, it's exactly what would be on one issued before my 1st birthday, only the issue date has changed. It's a government archive record! Anyhow... there is a thing called a "copy of an act" which may or may not show the original date of issue (hopefully before I was a year old!) I was also thinking of calling the church where I was dedicated (as anyone from QC knows, it used to be a church that registered the birth, not the state.. or maybe both? I don't know, I was registered through the church is all I know). SO... anyone else from QC who might know if this "copy of an act" thing is what they are looking for? MY younger children who are claiming descent through their father, were born in Ontario and HMPO is accepting their "certified true copy of a statement of live birth" (I'm thinking this is similar to the act thing?)

This is so stressful! It took them three months to get back to us about this, and the whole time they are holding our documents (birth certificates, marriage certificates, etc) and well... everything feels so up in the air now. It's all the more frustrating because though I know I have the RIGHT to a British by Descent claim, we have now sold our house, are moving, and are looking at "Plan B" because who knows what is going to happen.

Also, she, thought very polite, kept it so vague... "ask your state representative what you need"... um, why would the PROVINCIAL representative for a separatist province know anything about what I need to apply to the UK?? When I pressed her to tell me what WOULD be acceptable documentation, she basically stated, "I don't know, ask them" ?!?!?!?

I'm going to spend the extra 70$ to get the copy of an act expressed, I'm going to spend the 50$ to courier the copy of the act to them overseas... and that on TOP of the two couriers we've already used, plus the high cost of the original application. Maybe their new tactic on immigration is to break people financially before they get over the pond so they give up? They requested my birth certificate, I sent the bloody original copy!!! If that isn't what they wanted, why didn't they put that in in the first place??

Anyone born in QC and BbD know if the copy of the act is the right thing to send them??
Thanks!

BritInParis

I can't say I've ever seen a Quebec birth certificate but I presume there's the same issue in Quebec as there is in the US where adoptive parents are listed on a person's birth certificate with no indication that they are not the natural parents. A birth certificate issued in 2009 with (presumably) no mention of the registration date would therefore cause a problem as HMPO cannot be sure whether the parents listed on your birth certificate are your natural parents. I suspect you'll therefore need something that shows the date your birth was registered as well as your parents.

pondhopper2014

I am the biological child of my parents. There exists no such document that states whether or not the child is biological or not for the year of my birth. I just am. I have baby pictures, hospital pictures, birth certificate (I don't think I ever had one as a child) that I ordered when I had to apply for my Canadian passport a few years back (to take a trip to the UK ironically)... I'm so frustrated. I just spend 3 hours driving to the Directeur de L'Etat Civil, who informed me that the "copy of an act" would contain no more information than my birth certificate as it was entered in prior to 1994 (I was born in 1971)... I am SO frustrated. I sent my father's bc, my parent's marriage certificate, my birth certificate, even my marriage certificate to explain why my name is not the same on my Canadian passport as is on the other documents (I was married in Ontario, so legally, even my SIN card has my married name, my taxes are done in my married name, etc)
I'm SO frustrated. I CANNOT be the very first person born in QC of a British father prior to 1994... this does NOT make any sense besides someone playing empire builder somewhere... even the government worker here that we spoke to said it was ridiculous her suggestion to have the official HERE tell me what I need for THERE... obviously someone THERE has to tell me what alternative proofs are acceptable.

On a side topic... on my Canadian passport I can enter the UK for 6 months, how long do I have to be back in Canada before I can return? A week, a day, a month? Anyone know?

BritInParis

If you're applying for your first British passport from abroad at the age of 43 then HMPO are likely to be a lot more cautious than they would be with your average first time applicant especially if you're applying using a recently issued birth certificate. Do you or your parents not have your original birth certificate issued when you were born? If not I would push back at HMPO and say that what they're asking for is not available for the year when you were born. Push comes to shove they can request DNA tests though they are likely to cave in before that happens.

If you spend six consecutive months in the UK on a visitor stamp then generally speaking you would then need to six months outside the UK before re-entering in order to be considered a genuine visitor.

JAJ

Quebec birth certificates issued before 1994 are not normally acceptable for official purposes in Canada. However, this birth certificate was issued in 2009, so usually there should not be a problem with its acceptance.

Since the Foreign Office does not offer consular birth registration in Canada, one has to presume that the standards of birth registration (all provinces) are similar to those in the United Kingdom. There is no obvious reason why a Quebec birth certificate should not be acceptable in the situation described.

Unfortunately, the lack of any statutory provisions on passport issuance mean that the Passport Office can refuse passports on a whim, even if they're the ones who don't understand the documents.

A better alternative is usually to bypass the Passport Office, and apply to the Home Office for a certificate of British nationality status, using form NS. With such a certificate, the Passport Office should normally issue a British passport unless there are serious doubts about a person's identity.

Another option is to apply for a Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode. The difference is that the application should normally be considered by Foreign Office staff (or contractors) who may have more chance of understanding non-U.K. documentation. And, more importantly, if they refuse they have to give a reason and there is an appeal process. They cannot refuse the application just because they feel like it.

pondhopper2014

So... let's just say they are short of money, they can take my hard earned dollars, and on a whim decide they don't like my birth certificate, and say no, and I am just plain "out the pocket change" in the deal??? Can I apply for that nationality status thing while in the UK as a visitor? This is SO frustrating. The ONLY document acceptable for any legal thing in Canada is the very document I sent them... but they want some non-existent paperwork from 43 years ago which would have only been given by a local church. You are right. This is what I said in my response to them earlier today:

"I find it hard to believe that I am the first British by Descent application from Quebec born before 1994 to ever apply. Anyone who has applied like me would have only been able to submit the same full birth certificate as I have provided. You mentioned that the document had to be issued within a year of my birth, but the reason our governments keep archives is in case the original document is lost or damaged, though I doubt very much that I ever had anything beyond a church record until I applied for myself as an adult."

I hope that gets their attention. I'm not imporessed that they've waited almost three months before mentioning this.

Thanks for the good counsel. Plodding along...

Gozit

Yes, but say you went to UK on Canadian passport, after 6 months you have your citizenship and passport sorted, you can leave take the chunnel to france, and re-enter UK on UK passport immediately.

Or more conveniently, when you apply for your UK passport they ask for the details of any foreign passports held. You include the details of your Canadian passport, and then they cancel the visitor record on that passport as you are a UK citizen. But the important thing is you apply for the passport within 6 months of arriving in the UK; sooner rather than later, so you are not considered an overstay.

I would do form NS if I was you, but the CoE as a last resort. Reason because you cannot have both a CoE and a UK passport at once. Its better to have the passport so you can use it to travel in Europe using the EEA lines and such, as well as travel to countries that are visa free for UK citizens but not visa free for Canadians. (Yes there are some, Brazil and most countries around it come to mind)

Feeling for you pondhopper. Government bureaucracy especially when it comes to applying for citizenship by descent can be annoying. Hope you get it sorted.

pondhopper2014

Ya, I like that plan, my only fear is that moving the whole family on the premise that I can get it sorted in 6 months of being there and then finding out for whatever reason that I can't... then I have the expense and hassle of getting everyone back over the pond because I'm not living without my husband - we're a package deal. But it is something to look at if things are moving along here, and we can get over there knowing that the passport is about to be sorted... just redirect it there. Then awww... poor me, I'll just have to get away for a weekend with my Hunny in Paris. Big sacrifice, eh? LOL!

Me too! We've sold the house (no biggie, were thinking of selling either way) and are now sorting/purging/packing to move over the pond... so it'd be really great to get this sorted. The big church archives are actually going to see if they can find the original copy they hold of my dedication certificate. If they can find it, they'll copy it, sign it as a true copy and state clearly on it that "this is a true copy of the document that would have been issued within a year of her birth"... take that HMPO! But thing is, it's not a legal birth record... no one could get what is not a legally recognised birth record until 1994 when they changed the system. What she has in her grubby little paws IS the only legal document to formally recognise my birth. This is all so exhausting. Thankfully my older daughter (the only one born in QC) was born in 1995, so she will have the whole "copy of the act" thing filled out and be able to get hers easier at least.

Blessings!

Gozit

I don't think you'll need to resort to such extreme measures Worst case scenario use form NS to get a certificate of UK nationality status, and use that when entering the UK to prove you are a UK citizen. There's been a lot of recent discussions on this, due to the passport backlog, etc etc people have been entering UK with their foreign passport and certificate of UK nationality / UK birth certificate / consular birth registration from abroad

I'd say your best option if the passport doesn't get sorted (i'm sure it will) then use form NS to get that certificate. Then no expensive flights/trips to Paris...

All good news!! Yes, take that HMPO!

BritInParis

If the OP is a British citizen then any visitor stamp she receives in her Canadian passport is a moot point as it'll be null and void. Having said that for practical purposes she would need to get hold of a British passport as soon as possible in order to prove she has the right to live in the UK. A trip to Paris or anywhere else wouldn't be necessary.

I would simply push back at HMPO and ask them to clarify exactly what they want and if it's not available then tell them and leave it up to them. Did you speak to the passport examiner who is handling your application or a customer service rep?

pondhopper2014

Well.. in an odd twist. My claim to BbD is exactly the same as my children's claim. British father, married to mother, born legitimately. Okay... guess what? My SON'S British passport showed up today. I'm expecting my daughter's tomorrow. Guess who DOESN'T have theirs? THE FATHER (you know, the BORN BRIT?!?!) and me. Aiyaiyai.

Anyhow, that's your laugh for today.

C_B

I'm in the US, born in Quebec. My original Birth Certificate was issued by "Valleyfield United Church" and signed by the minister. It has a seal on it "The United Church of Canada". It was accepted in the US for awhile, then they said I needed to send away for an official one. In 2002 I sent away and received a Birth Cert from Quebec. It's odd to hear that they will only accept the original one. But I think you should be able to get a copy from the Church. Hope this helps someone.

Gozit

Thanks mate. I think pondhopper has got her passports by now, and if i am not mistaken is currently in the UK.